|
|
| Author |
Message |
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
 Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:53 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Confused wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | sinrakin wrote: | Hmm, I guess noblesse doesn't oblige quite as much as it used to.
Or maybe even in the US, money != noblesse. |
My only guess is that you're defending the program because you're a leftist and you think you're supposed to. It really makes absolutely no sense at all to have, though. |
Hahahaha.. the leftist card. It had to come out eventually.
-Nah- |
Only a leftist could so irrationally defend something so stupid. Or maybe it's just the fact that it's called "social security" when it actually has the exact opposite effect of creating security. Some people are that dumb. |
I know that you weren't referring to me because I didn't go either way on this debate. The only thing I know is that my family sort of falls into the "needing support" bracket.. It's not really a matter of investing stupidly, my parents just never made enough money to invest in after kids, tuition and a mortgage. When my dad had a stroke at 55 and was left blind as a result, it was the only option available to him. He worked for that the majority of his life. You could either see it as removing your choice (which it really doesn't, in the most literal translation of the phrase... you still can invest in other things you just have this one more or less mandatory thing you have to contribute to) or helping people (in this case my father) who aren't really in a position to invest otherwise by basically investing for them.
I'm not sure why my family would have done with the money if they didn't get SS taken out of their paychecks, probably spend it eventually. I guess from my side the system isn't a total failure, it's certainly benefitting us now.
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
 |
Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:55 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Nahualli wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | sinrakin wrote: | Hmm, I guess noblesse doesn't oblige quite as much as it used to.
Or maybe even in the US, money != noblesse. |
My only guess is that you're defending the program because you're a leftist and you think you're supposed to. It really makes absolutely no sense at all to have, though. |
Hahahaha.. the leftist card. It had to come out eventually.
-Nah- |
Only a leftist could so irrationally defend something so stupid. Or maybe it's just the fact that it's called "social security" when it actually has the exact opposite effect of creating security. Some people are that dumb. |
I know that you weren't referring to me because I didn't go either way on this debate. The only thing I know is that my family sort of falls into the "needing support" bracket.. It's not really a matter of investing stupidly, my parents just never made enough money to invest in after kids, tuition and a mortgage. When my dad had a stroke at 55 and was left blind as a result, it was the only option available to him. He worked for that the majority of his life. You could either see it as removing your choice (which it really doesn't, in the most literal translation of the phrase... you still can invest in other things you just have this one more or less mandatory thing you have to contribute to) or helping people (in this case my father) who aren't really in a position to invest otherwise by basically investing for them.
I'm not sure why my family would have done with the money if they didn't get SS taken out of their paychecks, probably spend it eventually. I guess from my side the system isn't a total failure, it's certainly benefitting us now.
-Nah- |
I was referring to Sinrakin.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Ikkan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 3086
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:56 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Nahualli wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | sinrakin wrote: | Hmm, I guess noblesse doesn't oblige quite as much as it used to.
Or maybe even in the US, money != noblesse. |
My only guess is that you're defending the program because you're a leftist and you think you're supposed to. It really makes absolutely no sense at all to have, though. |
Hahahaha.. the leftist card. It had to come out eventually.
-Nah- |
Only a leftist could so irrationally defend something so stupid. Or maybe it's just the fact that it's called "social security" when it actually has the exact opposite effect of creating security. Some people are that dumb. |
I know that you weren't referring to me because I didn't go either way on this debate. The only thing I know is that my family sort of falls into the "needing support" bracket.. It's not really a matter of investing stupidly, my parents just never made enough money to invest in after kids, tuition and a mortgage. When my dad had a stroke at 55 and was left blind as a result, it was the only option available to him. He worked for that the majority of his life. You could either see it as removing your choice (which it really doesn't, in the most literal translation of the phrase... you still can invest in other things you just have this one more or less mandatory thing you have to contribute to) or helping people (in this case my father) who aren't really in a position to invest otherwise by basically investing for them.
I'm not sure why my family would have done with the money if they didn't get SS taken out of their paychecks, probably spend it eventually. I guess from my side the system isn't a total failure, it's certainly benefitting us now.
-Nah- |
Aw, poor dad 
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 15:05 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Confused wrote: |
I was referring to Sinrakin. |
I know you were  I just added my 2 cents in there cuz I was in that vein without having directly contributed to the debate yet
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 15:08 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Nahualli wrote: | | Confused wrote: |
I was referring to Sinrakin. |
I know you were I just added my 2 cents in there cuz I was in that vein without having directly contributed to the debate yet
-Nah- |
maytheforcebewithyou, paco speaking..maytheforcebewithyou, yes, you are a team player, maytheforcebewithyou
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 15:12 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Ikkan wrote: |
Aw, poor dad |
Typical stubborn macho Latino male b******t too.. I love my father to death but jesus he's dumb sometimes. The man says to my mom after dinner that he's going to bed cuz he's tired. He wakes up in the middle of the night puking his guts out, takes an aspirin and goes back to sleep. Wakes up the next morning and goes to work as usual. He goes to sleep the next night, still not bothering to mention the slightest thing because he assumed he was catching a cold. Wakes up the next morning blind. Calls in sick to work, calls my sister to take him to the the eye doctor because he assumes he has a cataract. The doctor looks in his eye and says that's not a cataract it's a f*****g blood clot. They rush him to emergency and do some tests to find out he didn't have one, but TWO strokes, consecutively in as many nights.
Not only was it a sheer miracle he wasn't struck dead on the spot, he comes to find out had he said something when he started getting symptoms the first night they could have put him on medicine that might have prevented the second one..
It's almost funny now, this happened about 3 years ago but at the time, it wasn't too funny.
edit : my mom and dad weren't sleeping in the same bed at the time cuz of the baby so she didn't know what was going on.. before anyone asks
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 15:15 Post subject:
|
|
|
this would be a nice gift for confused since he is cwyeeng about his munee. booohoooo! I need allll my muneeeee, my preciousssss!
kind of a neat lil work of art at that.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 15:24 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Frehya wrote: |
this would be a nice gift for confused since he is cwyeeng about his munee. booohoooo! I need allll my muneeeee, my preciousssss!
kind of a neat lil work of art at that. |
What does that have to do with money. It's a little violin...as in I don't care about supporting irresponsible people.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Petr
Luke Warm
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 102
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 15:44 Post subject:
|
|
|
I could do more with the money i pay into social security then i am ever going to see when i retire (assuming the country isnt bankrupt by then).
The personal retirement accounts are a perfect example of how Social Security needs to be eliminated. The current proposal the is being stonewalled in congress is the allow those of us 35 and under to start taking what we are paying into SSA and take half of it and put it into these PRA accounts. Those would then be managed and put into larger Mutual Funds for growth. The other half would be used to help fund Social Security until the people in their 30's hit retirement age... at which time, Social Security would be completely phased out.
OH NO!!! WHAT ABOUT MY POOR GRANDMA BERTHA WHO FELL AND SLIPPED AND BROKER HER HIP AND HAS TO EAT DOG FOOD YOU EVIL REPUBLICAN!!!
Rightly or wrongly, the US govt has promised a certain agegroup of people Social Security. Unfortunately, that includes baby boomers. But, if we cut it off now, we can still provide Social Security for those who it has been promised, but move to a more finacially stable (for the govt) and finacially lucritive (for the retiree) system. Plus, there are plenty of other programs in place to help the elderly.
OH NO!!!!! WHAT ABOUT a_useless_individual_who_had_bad_luck_01!!!!!
There are already umpteen billion federal programs in place to help people who have fallen down on their luck, hit some hard times or whatever. Remember, it isnt my responsibility to support someone for their life. THere should be govt assistance FOR A TIME for people who have difficulties... but i should not be carte blanche to be a loser. It should also end after a certain period of time as well. Again, if i want to support someone, ill invite them to live with me.
OH NO!!!!!!! WHAT IF THE STOCK MARKET CRASHES AND WE LOSE ALL OF OUR MONEYS!!!!!!!!
What if the govt declares bankruptcy, which is much more likely of a case. The bottom line, is either position is inheritly risky, but the reward for the risk is greater if we are allowed to use PRA's instead of just sending money to the govt juggernaut. Plus, we can actually control congress (not that we will) and we can put people in congress who are fiscally responsible, instead of thinking they have a Credit card with unlimited funds.
The govt also guarentess the money put in at the current rate (which is like .02% annual growth of what you put in for SSA taxes.. a huge amt to be sure) so, at the very least, you gain nothing and still will collect your 150 bucks a month Social Security check. (which si what it will be if its there at all when i get there).
Personal Retirement Accounts allow the govt to eventually get rid of social security (which needs to be done) and allows us to have more lucrative retirement plans with the money we earn to start with.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 16:57 Post subject:
|
|
|
I just called social security. The form only allows you to withdraw your application to receive benefits that you are eligable to receive. Apparently that's the case only if, for example, you are old then win the lottery and for some reason you want to hold off of receiving your money for a while. f*****g gov'ment. Where's my foil hat?
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Banzai
Guest
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 17:20 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Just assume you will never see a penny of your SS saveings and it will be a lot easier to take when the program falls on us.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 17:56 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Frehya wrote: | | this would be a nice gift for confused since he is cwyeeng about his munee. booohoooo! I need allll my muneeeee, my preciousssss! |
and
| Quote: | | You should tell that to all of the elderly in this country who live by their Social Security check. Do it. To their faces, each one of them. |
are just awful arguments. The fact that someone is rich does not mean they owe anyone. Being successful does not mean the burden of supporting society rests upon your shoulders. Nor does wanting to keep the money that you earned make you greedy. Furthermore, instead of me having to apologize for not wanting to support Social Security through eternity, maybe the people that chose not to save should be apologizing for not looking after their own future.
We need some sort of safety net. Regardless of what we say or do, people do fall on hard times and need help. Likewise, some people will not save money no matter how many times you tell them. Social Security is not that safety net, however. It's simply a giant waste of my and everyone else's money. Ideally, I would like to see the money simply given to the public to invest privately but realistically, I think far too many people would simply spend it. I've always liked the idea that Petr supports because it actually invests the money and gives you an incentive to work harder and add more to your personal portfolio.
Additionally, we should be teaching people the basics of saving and investing money early, preferably in high school. Regardless of what the doom-and-gloom news stations tell you, it's nearly impossible to lose all your money if you invest wisely. The savings and loans scandal affected middle class families far more than the rich who tend to diversify their investments.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Starks
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 17 Oct 2002
Posts: 865
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 18:00 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Social Security isn't a problem you should worry about. Last year car insurance companies paid out $240mil in claims. So 280 million people in the US as of last census, half can't/don't drive, that comes out to just under $2 a year per person. Shit, I wish my insurance payments were $1 every six months instead of $750
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 18:50 Post subject:
|
|
|
I support an insurance company that sells auto insurance to 'high risk' drivers. We take in about $250-600,000 per day in new premiums over our internet site. 365 days a year. Do the math on that 
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 18:59 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Nuldaan wrote: | | Being successful does not mean the burden of supporting society rests upon your shoulders. |
Actually that's exactly what it means. Why do you think public funding comes out of our taxes?
Granted I think SS needs to be eventually phased out.. but I think your statement of not having to support society just because you're responsible and successful is ... odd.
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 19:43 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
I hate SS. If I had it my way, I would donate the money to my church. God bless you all.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 19:44 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Ikkan wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | Rennol wrote: | | WheresNWS wrote: |
Go to Hell. I don't owe anybody anything. This is just legalized theft thanks to FDR. I'm basically paying for a bunch of people who chose to be irresponsible their whole lives. Success is easy. All you have to do is stop screwing up your own life like most people do. I shouldn't be made to pay for peoples' own mistakes.
|
You should tell that to all of the elderly in this country who live by their Social Security check. Do it. To their faces, each one of them. |
lol. Awwwwwwwww. How sweet of you! I had better go out and beg all those old people I've never met to forgive me for not wanting them to take all my money on account they they never bothered to save a penny.
|
Hahaha!!!1! Good one, boss! |
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 19:59 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Paco wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | | Confused wrote: |
I was referring to Sinrakin. |
I know you were I just added my 2 cents in there cuz I was in that vein without having directly contributed to the debate yet
-Nah- |
maytheforcebewithyou, paco speaking..maytheforcebewithyou, yes, you are a team player, maytheforcebewithyou |
MAAAY! the force be with you....
I would, if I could, walk up to every stupid old f****r I could find, and take all my money back.
Then I would invest it all in apartment buildings, give them all a room to live in, and keep the other proifits for myself.
As they croak, I fill the rooms with 20 somethingish renters.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 20:47 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Nahualli wrote: | | Nuldaan wrote: | | Being successful does not mean the burden of supporting society rests upon your shoulders. |
Actually that's exactly what it means. Why do you think public funding comes out of our taxes?
Granted I think SS needs to be eventually phased out.. but I think your statement of not having to support society just because you're responsible and successful is ... odd.
-Nah- |
I should rephrase that I guess. The point I was driving at was that people are ultimately responsible for themselves. The view that people that work somehow owe the people that don't money is incorrect and damaging.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 22:15 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Kbarr wrote: | | Paco wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | | Confused wrote: |
I was referring to Sinrakin. |
I know you were I just added my 2 cents in there cuz I was in that vein without having directly contributed to the debate yet
-Nah- |
maytheforcebewithyou, paco speaking..maytheforcebewithyou, yes, you are a team player, maytheforcebewithyou |
MAAAY! the force be with you....
I would, if I could, walk up to every stupid old f****r I could find, and take all my money back.
Then I would invest it all in apartment buildings, give them all a room to live in, and keep the other proifits for myself.
As they croak, I fill the rooms with 20 somethingish renters.
|
May the Force be with you, Nahualli here, Darth Kbarr, sir, you are OUT OF LINE, you did not close your statement with "May the Force be with you". The Imperial Senate requires decorum at all times. Thank you. May the Force be with you.
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Guest
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 22:27 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Nahualli wrote: | | Kbarr wrote: | | Paco wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | | Confused wrote: |
I was referring to Sinrakin. |
I know you were I just added my 2 cents in there cuz I was in that vein without having directly contributed to the debate yet
-Nah- |
maytheforcebewithyou, paco speaking..maytheforcebewithyou, yes, you are a team player, maytheforcebewithyou |
MAAAY! the force be with you....
I would, if I could, walk up to every stupid old f****r I could find, and take all my money back.
Then I would invest it all in apartment buildings, give them all a room to live in, and keep the other proifits for myself.
As they croak, I fill the rooms with 20 somethingish renters.
|
May the Force be with you, Nahualli here, Darth Kbarr, sir, you are OUT OF LINE, you did not close your statement with "May the Force be with you". The Imperial Senate requires decorum at all times. Thank you. May the Force be with you.
-Nah- |
Maay! the force be with you, Kbarr here, I stand corrected, may the force be with you.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
|
|
Posted: 05/24/04 - 23:50 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
we should have the german version of ss... they have the best way to take care of the old people imo.. zyklon-b > stupid retirement funds.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
