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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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 Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:13 Post subject: I got my social security statement
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If I had put the money into a savings account rather than that ridiculous program, I could buy one of these with the money...and have another $25,000 to spare:
Anybody who thinks FDR was a good president needs to die.
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:15 Post subject: Re: I got my social security statement
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| Confused wrote: | If I had put the money into a savings account rather than that ridiculous program, I could buy one of these with the money...and have another $25,000 to spare:
Anybody who thinks FDR was a good president needs to die. |
I'm sure you still have enough to buy a gun and blow your f*****g head off already.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:16 Post subject: Re: I got my social security statement
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| Maelstrom wrote: | | Confused wrote: | If I had put the money into a savings account rather than that ridiculous program, I could buy one of these with the money...and have another $25,000 to spare:
Anybody who thinks FDR was a good president needs to die. |
I'm sure you still have enough to buy a gun and blow your f*****g head off already. |
Or I could hire a whole band of very good Canadian hitmen.
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:18 Post subject:
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Why youre too much of a p***y to do your dirty work by yourself? doesn't suprise me.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:19 Post subject:
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So your recommendation is people should use their retirement money to buy cars? That's one way of stimulating the economy I guess. Then if they all get in car accidents and kill themselves, we won't have to pay for their retirements either.
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:20 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | | So your recommendation is people should use their retirement money to buy cars? That's one way of stimulating the economy I guess. Then if they all get in car accidents and kill themselves, we won't have to pay for their retirements either. |
Hey it's a car or a 25k ring his "fiance" still has 9 fingers free.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:21 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | | So your recommendation is people should use their retirement money to buy cars? That's one way of stimulating the economy I guess. Then if they all get in car accidents and kill themselves, we won't have to pay for their retirements either. |
I didn't say I would. I'm just saying how gay the whole program is. That's money I'll never see again. I could buy a modest house for the money that I've already thrown away. Don't you think that owning a house provides just a little more security than does having absolutely nothing at all??
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:24 Post subject:
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I think it's one of those things that you only hate while you're young.. I know when my father got sick and had to stop working he was pretty glad it was there.
-Nah-
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:29 Post subject:
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Say I bought a house cash with the money (about $100,000) that was far enough away from a metropolitan area that I could actually pull that off. And say I rented it out and had a 10% return (which is typical). And say I adjusted for 3% inflation, so that my annual return was actually 7%. By the time I'm eligable for social security benefits (age 65 but probably higher by that time), the amount that I have contributed (only thus far!) would probably grow to $1.4 million adjusted for inflation.
If I take into account the money I continue to pay, it is would be worth $2.6 million adjusted for inflation.
Now if I owned $2.6 million in rental property by that time, then it would be reasonable to assume that I would be getting about $260,000/year in income all through my retirement.
I was even nice and didn't include a very conservative value for property appreciation which would actually triple that amount.
FDR sucks.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:30 Post subject:
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| Nahualli wrote: | I think it's one of those things that you only hate while you're young.. I know when my father got sick and had to stop working he was pretty glad it was there.
-Nah- |
Look at my little calculation and see why I doubt that's true. I would much rather have $600,000/year in retirement income than the $25,000/year or whatever it is, that retired people get.
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sinrakin
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:33 Post subject:
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If you own a house outright, yes it's better security. But if you use your money to buy a house during a housing bubble, it might be worse security.
It's a tough question. I miss the money I paid in to SS obviously, but I look at it as a necessary tax - if we didn't have that, we'd have different tax instead to keep all the homeless penniless old people from starving in the street, which nobody wants to see. You could make the argument that it's necessary to have the possibility of major failure in order to for people to exercise sufficient care in managing their investments, and I'd agree with that. But the practical definition of failure is "living a highly restricted lifestyle on nothing but social security", not "starving to death in the street". Or you could assume that private charity will provide, which just shifts the burden to the percentage of people who contribute to private charities.
I'm sure the program could use some improvements, but I don't know that I'd just get rid of it.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:38 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | If you own a house outright, yes it's better security. But if you use your money to buy a house during a housing bubble, it might be worse security.
It's a tough question. I miss the money I paid in to SS obviously, but I look at it as a necessary tax - if we didn't have that, we'd have different tax instead to keep all the homeless penniless old people from starving in the street, which nobody wants to see. You could make the argument that it's necessary to have the possibility of major failure in order to for people to exercise sufficient care in managing their investments, and I'd agree with that. But the practical definition of failure is "living a highly restricted lifestyle on nothing but social security", not "starving to death in the street". Or you could assume that private charity will provide, which just shifts the burden to the percentage of people who contribute to private charities.
I'm sure the program could use some improvements, but I don't know that I'd just get rid of it. |
Wrong. Even a house bought during a housing bubble provides infinitely more security than having nothing at all. The program completely sucks. It removes our individual choices on how we wish to live our lives. There are plenty of houses out there that can be bought for $100,000. Owning one with a return on it so young in my life provides a level of security that SS would NEVER approach.
To even suggest that my $100,000 is better spent supporting rich old people in florida is ridiculous at best. I'm even willing to cut my losses and get lose that 100 grand just to get rid of social security so that my kids don't have to endure its injustice.
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sinrakin
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:43 Post subject:
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If it makes you feel any better, think of your social security tax as a sort of noblesse oblige that successful people owe to the less successful. And if you're smart enough and successful enough, you shouldn't even miss it 
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:50 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | | If it makes you feel any better, think of your social security tax as a sort of noblesse oblige that successful people owe to the less successful. And if you're smart enough and successful enough, you shouldn't even miss it |
Go to Hell. I don't owe anybody anything. This is just legalized theft thanks to FDR. I'm basically paying for a bunch of people who chose to be irresponsible their whole lives. Success is easy. All you have to do is stop screwing up your own life like most people do. I shouldn't be made to pay for peoples' own mistakes.
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sinrakin
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 13:55 Post subject:
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Hmm, I guess noblesse doesn't oblige quite as much as it used to.
Or maybe even in the US, money != noblesse.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:01 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | Hmm, I guess noblesse doesn't oblige quite as much as it used to.
Or maybe even in the US, money != noblesse. |
My only guess is that you're defending the program because you're a leftist and you think you're supposed to. It really makes absolutely no sense at all to have, though.
Forcing a kid in his early twenties to support people who have had their ENTIRE lives to prepare for their situation is ridiculous. Think about it. If I managed my own money, I would have enough to buy over 50 houses by the time I retire. I could support my entire extended family.
Social Security comes down to one thing: Removing the freedom to make one's own financial choices.
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Xion
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:05 Post subject: Re: I got my social security statement
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| Confused wrote: | If I had put the money into a savings account rather than that ridiculous program, I could buy one of these with the money...and have another $25,000 to spare:
Anybody who thinks FDR was a good president needs to die. |
While I think social security in its current form is ridiculous, there needs to be SOME form of minimal retirement support for those people too stupid to save. If you don't have it, people just start stealing what they need.
I'd be in favor of cutting current SS benefits in half.
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:05 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: | | sinrakin wrote: | Hmm, I guess noblesse doesn't oblige quite as much as it used to.
Or maybe even in the US, money != noblesse. |
My only guess is that you're defending the program because you're a leftist and you think you're supposed to. It really makes absolutely no sense at all to have, though. |
Hahahaha.. the leftist card. It had to come out eventually.
-Nah-
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:06 Post subject: Re: I got my social security statement
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| Xion wrote: | | Confused wrote: | If I had put the money into a savings account rather than that ridiculous program, I could buy one of these with the money...and have another $25,000 to spare:
Anybody who thinks FDR was a good president needs to die. |
While I think social security in its current form is ridiculous, there needs to be SOME form of minimal retirement support for those people too stupid to save. If you don't have it, people just start stealing what they need.
I'd be in favor of cutting current SS benefits in half. |
Yeah, it would be stupid to pull the carpet out right now when so many people depend on it. But it definately needs to be phased out.
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Frax
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:08 Post subject:
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| Nahualli wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | sinrakin wrote: | Hmm, I guess noblesse doesn't oblige quite as much as it used to.
Or maybe even in the US, money != noblesse. |
My only guess is that you're defending the program because you're a leftist and you think you're supposed to. It really makes absolutely no sense at all to have, though. |
Hahahaha.. the leftist card. It had to come out eventually.
-Nah- |
Only a leftist could so irrationally defend something so stupid. Or maybe it's just the fact that it's called "social security" when it actually has the exact opposite effect of creating security. Some people are that dumb.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:11 Post subject:
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Dude...I might try that.
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Frax
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Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:13 Post subject:
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That is a cut and paste from an email a guy I work with sent me. He claims to have opted out and the SSA sent him a check with all of his money. He is a bit on the tinfoil hat edge himself, so take it with a grain of salt. 
Obviously they try to make this as obscure as possible if you read that form.
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sinrakin
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:18 Post subject:
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Well, first of all people who need money when they're old aren't necessarily stupid. Some are, obviously. But some worked their whole life for companies which lost or canceled their pensions or health plans. Some had their money in banks or savings and loans that failed - you could say that they were stupid for investing badly, but if the government couldn't figure out that they were about to fail, how would you expect a 70 year old ex manual laborer to do so? Some made smart investments that just didn't work out - if you reduce your risk to zero, you pretty much reduce your profits to zero too. Some have devastating medical or accident expenses. Some just don't make enough to save - a guy working for minimum wage isn't really in a position to save for his retirement; he's got enough problems buying food and shelter and medical care.
Anyway, social security and medicare taxes are both capped. So if you miss that money that much, maybe you just need to work a little harder to get to the point where your marginal income isn't affected.
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Frehya
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:19 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: | | I'm basically paying for a bunch of people who chose to be irresponsible their whole lives. Success is easy. All you have to do is stop screwing up your own life like most people do. I shouldn't be made to pay for peoples' own mistakes. |
Oh yes, everyone who finds themselves needing help via social security is irresponsible their whole lives. Sickness, injury, bad luck, aging and infirmity, loss of their savings through possible catastrophic illness or accident, theft, economic downturns don't effect God's "good people".
... all those lousy parasites faults. every one of em!
It must be boring living your smug little black and white world.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:24 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | Well, first of all people who need money when they're old aren't necessarily stupid. Some are, obviously. But some worked their whole life for companies which lost or canceled their pensions or health plans. Some had their money in banks or savings and loans that failed - you could say that they were stupid for investing badly, but if the government couldn't figure out that they were about to fail, how would you expect a 70 year old ex manual laborer to do so? Some made smart investments that just didn't work out - if you reduce your risk to zero, you pretty much reduce your profits to zero too. Some have devastating medical or accident expenses. Some just don't make enough to save - a guy working for minimum wage isn't really in a position to save for his retirement; he's got enough problems buying food and shelter and medical care.
Anyway, social security and medicare taxes are both capped. So if you miss that money that much, maybe you just need to work a little harder to get to the point where your marginal income isn't affected. |
I know SS is capped (currently right around $88,000/year or so) but you actually pay twice of what is deducted from your paycheck because your employer matches the funds of both SS and medicare. Almost 90% of SS recipients recieve it because they are retired. The rest very easily have bought insurance.
Like I said, you're just removing peoples' ability to make "choices". I thought that's what liberals were all about!
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:24 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | I'm basically paying for a bunch of people who chose to be irresponsible their whole lives. Success is easy. All you have to do is stop screwing up your own life like most people do. I shouldn't be made to pay for peoples' own mistakes. |
Oh yes, everyone who finds themselves needing help via social security is irresponsible their whole lives. Sickness, injury, bad luck, aging and infirmity, loss of their savings through possible catastrophic illness or accident, theft, economic downturns don't effect God's "good people".
... all those lousy parasites faults. every one of em!
It must be boring living your smug little black and white world. |
Nearly 90% of recipients are simply retired...d*****s.
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Rennol
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Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:47 Post subject:
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| WheresNWS wrote: |
Go to Hell. I don't owe anybody anything. This is just legalized theft thanks to FDR. I'm basically paying for a bunch of people who chose to be irresponsible their whole lives. Success is easy. All you have to do is stop screwing up your own life like most people do. I shouldn't be made to pay for peoples' own mistakes.
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You should tell that to all of the elderly in this country who live by their Social Security check. Do it. To their faces, each one of them.
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Confused
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:51 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | | WheresNWS wrote: |
Go to Hell. I don't owe anybody anything. This is just legalized theft thanks to FDR. I'm basically paying for a bunch of people who chose to be irresponsible their whole lives. Success is easy. All you have to do is stop screwing up your own life like most people do. I shouldn't be made to pay for peoples' own mistakes.
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You should tell that to all of the elderly in this country who live by their Social Security check. Do it. To their faces, each one of them. |
lol. Awwwwwwwww. How sweet of you! I had better go out and beg all those old people I've never met to forgive me for not wanting them to take all my money on account they they never bothered to save a penny.
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Ikkan
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Posted: 05/24/04 - 14:52 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: | | Rennol wrote: | | WheresNWS wrote: |
Go to Hell. I don't owe anybody anything. This is just legalized theft thanks to FDR. I'm basically paying for a bunch of people who chose to be irresponsible their whole lives. Success is easy. All you have to do is stop screwing up your own life like most people do. I shouldn't be made to pay for peoples' own mistakes.
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You should tell that to all of the elderly in this country who live by their Social Security check. Do it. To their faces, each one of them. |
lol. Awwwwwwwww. How sweet of you! I had better go out and beg all those old people I've never met to forgive me for not wanting them to take all my money on account they they never bothered to save a penny.
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Hahaha the win.
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