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Tav
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 894
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 Posted: 08/19/05 - 14:24 Post subject: Hunter - Post patch 1.7 Talents comparison
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Current build:
5 Beast, 32 Marks, 14 Surv (to get deterrance)
3723HP, 23.58% Ranged Crit, 1234 RAP w/ Trueshot Aura and Hawk
401 Agi, 8% to Hit (Gear based)
Marksmanship Hunter:
5 Beast, 31 Marks, 15 Surv
4036HP, 23.58% Ranged Crit, 1253 RAP w/ Trueshot Aura and Hawk
401 Agi, 8% to hit (Gear based)
Survival Based Hunter
0 Beast, 21 Marks (Aimed shot and 1 point in Barrage), 30 Surv
4111 HP, 27.73% Ranged Crit, 1275 RAP w/ Hawk
460'ish agi (talent increase), 11% to hit (Gear and Talent based)
Now just basing on Crit % alone, this looks like it may be the highest DPS build of them all. 0 in IAotH doesn't give me the chance to get the haste buff. The additional to hit % (assuming it affects ranged and melee), allows me to tradeout one of my rings with to hit % to another with power & crit.
Any other hunters have any thoughts on this?
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atarom
Guest
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Posted: 08/29/05 - 12:22 Post subject:
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parse it in MC
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Ashenor
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 1539
Location: Metro Detroit
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Posted: 08/29/05 - 15:58 Post subject:
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I did a 21m/30s build on test server, i have not had a lot of time to play around with it yet.
I am going to DL the new test patch try to test it out some.
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Tav
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 894
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Posted: 08/29/05 - 18:36 Post subject:
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| atarom wrote: | | parse it in MC |
It'll be parsed when it's in release. Can't get my guild to do a full MC run on Test server. 
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Cardnyl
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 397
Location: FL
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Posted: 09/01/05 - 13:40 Post subject:
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I like this build better.
| Code: |
Beast Mastery Talents (0 points)
# None
Marksmanship Talents (22 points)
# Improved Concussive Shot - 5/5 points
Gives your Concussive Shot a 20% chance to stun the target for 3 seconds.
# Improved Hunter's Mark - 5/5 points
Increases the Ranged Attack Power bonus of your Hunter's Mark spell by 15%.
# Lethal Shots - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance with ranged weapons by 5%.
# Aimed Shot - 1/1 point
An aimed shot that increases ranged damage by 70.
Level 28: 125 damage
Level 36: 200 damage
Level 44: 330 damage
Level 52: 460 damage
Level 60: 600 damage
# Mortal Shots - 5/5 points
Increases your ranged weapon critical strike damage bonus by 50%.
# Scatter Shot - 1/1 point
A short range shot that deals 50% weapon damage and confuses the target for 4 seconds. Any damage caused will remove the effect.
Survival Talents (29 points)
# Humanoid Slaying - 3/3 points
Increases all damage caused against Humanoid targets by 3% and increases critical damage caused Humanoid targets by an additional 3%.
# Monster Slaying - 3/3 points
Increases all damage caused against Beast, Giant, and Dragonkin targets by 3% and increases critical damage caused against Beast, Giant, and Dragonkin targets by an additional 3%.
# Deflection - 1/5 point
Increases your Parry chance by 1%.
# Improved Wing Clip - 5/5 points
Gives your Wing Clip ability a 20% chance to immobilize the target for 5 seconds.
# Deterrence - 1/1 point
When activated, increases your Dodge and Parry chance by 25% for 10 seconds.
# Survivalist - 5/5 points
Increases total health by 10%.
# Surefooted - 3/3 points
Increases hit chance by 3% and increases the chance movement impairing effects will be resisted by 15%.
# Killer Instinct - 3/3 points
Increases your critical strike chance with all attacks by 3%.
# Counterattack - 1/1 point
A strike that becomes active after parrying an opponent's attack. This attack deals 40 damage and immobilizes the target for 5 seconds. Counterattack cannot be blocked, dodged, or parried.
Level 42: 70 damage
Level 54: 110 damage
# Lightning Reflexes - 4/5 points
Increases your Agility by 12%.
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I avoided the 5pts for the aspect of hawk mainly because Id rather go for shit that applies full time than stuff thats only going to happen a portion of the time. The trade off was scatter shot vs 3% more agil. I chose scatter, but im also on a PVP server so that had a lot to do with it.
*edit The 1 point in the parry shit wasnt by choice, it was by necessity. I lacked the 25 required to open the agility booster talent. Also if your one of the rare few playing a Tauren hunter you could skip Deterrance and Counterattack in lieu of warstomp and use those points to fill something else.
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Tav
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 894
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Posted: 09/01/05 - 13:56 Post subject:
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Hmm... only 4 point Lightning Reflexes?
For me, I'm @ 405Agi unbuffed. That'd be losing about 12agi going that route.
12 Agi = 24 RAP, .23% Crit, and dodge (don't know calc for that)
Having Scatter shot is good, but I think Hunter's Mark is a bit over-rated. I don't see a difference with it on PvE mobs vs non.
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Cardnyl
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 397
Location: FL
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Posted: 09/01/05 - 14:32 Post subject:
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| Tav wrote: | Hmm... only 4 point Lightning Reflexes?
For me, I'm @ 405Agi unbuffed. That'd be losing about 12agi going that route.
12 Agi = 24 RAP, .23% Crit, and dodge (don't know calc for that)
Having Scatter shot is good, but I think Hunter's Mark is a bit over-rated. I don't see a difference with it on PvE mobs vs non. |
Hmm didnt take into account how agi affected ranged attack power. For you specifically since your at 405agi and assuming the 12agi does translate out to 24 RAP I would say drop to Rank 4 of Improved Hunters Mark (The increase in RAP between rank 4 and 5 of the talent is only like +3.3) and pick up the 5th point of the agi booster. In the end you should end up with more RAP and more crit chance which is a double win.
Oh had a question. Does the hawkeye talent adjust the deadzone for hunters at all or does that always remain a fixed distance. I heard it was like 8yds but was changed or something while I was gone.
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Tav
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 894
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Posted: 09/01/05 - 15:44 Post subject:
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| Cardnyl wrote: | | Tav wrote: | Hmm... only 4 point Lightning Reflexes?
For me, I'm @ 405Agi unbuffed. That'd be losing about 12agi going that route.
12 Agi = 24 RAP, .23% Crit, and dodge (don't know calc for that)
Having Scatter shot is good, but I think Hunter's Mark is a bit over-rated. I don't see a difference with it on PvE mobs vs non. |
Hmm didnt take into account how agi affected ranged attack power. For you specifically since your at 405agi and assuming the 12agi does translate out to 24 RAP I would say drop to Rank 4 of Improved Hunters Mark (The increase in RAP between rank 4 and 5 of the talent is only like +3.3) and pick up the 5th point of the agi booster. In the end you should end up with more RAP and more crit chance which is a double win.
Oh had a question. Does the hawkeye talent adjust the deadzone for hunters at all or does that always remain a fixed distance. I heard it was like 8yds but was changed or something while I was gone. |
On Live Deadzone is still an issue. On test, I duelled someone and *thought* that I was melee hitting from a further distance. Don't know for sure.. it's been a few weeks and I haven't duelled a Mage on test.
As for Hawk Eye, still minimum distance on ranged is 8yds
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Cardnyl
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 397
Location: FL
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Posted: 09/12/05 - 13:58 Post subject:
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Just read a intresting bit of info regarding the precision talent and +to hit gear for rogues, was just wondering how it works for hunters.
At quick and dirty from what I read as it applies to rogues is that theres a 5% base miss chance, and another 19% more for offhand hits. Precision itself covers the 5% base, and the gear apparently covers this same thing as well. Forcing the offhand to always have a 19% miss rate.
Im not sure how this applies with mobs that have higher than normal defense skill (Like MC trash mobs), or geared out warriors. Was hoping from some input if you get a sec Tav.
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Tav
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 894
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Posted: 09/12/05 - 14:16 Post subject:
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I honestly don't know how to hit % affects our melee, as any testing I've done was to test the impact of Biznick's Accurascope (3% to hit Scope applied to ranged weapon). Based off of that test, having the Accurascope ranged weapon equipped versus not equipped yeilded no differences in the tests based on 100 swings of a 2-hander or dual wielding.
I do have to say that the 5% to hit cap for ranged that people state regarding mobs are inaccurate. Hell, based on ranged attacks on MC trash and bosses, I notice a difference going from 7% to hit, to 8%. With 8% to hit, misses occur, just not as often. Maybe 2-3 misses on a 4 hour full MC clearing.
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Cardnyl
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 397
Location: FL
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Posted: 09/12/05 - 14:33 Post subject:
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Ive only heard the 5% base miss applying to melee. Wasnt sure if it applied to range or not. From the sound of your post it seems like folks are saying the 5% base chance to miss applies to bows/guns as well.
Heres a sample post of what Ive been reading today:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=565450&s=new&tmp=1#new
If its true and having more than 5% to hit only helps with high defense folks and MC mobs it might almost be better to ninja the points outa Surefooted talent and drop them elsewhere.
And just as a side note, I have a macro that swaps in my PVE suit when I goto instances, well due to the way item swapping works in this game dont ever have a vendor window open to repair your shit and tag your swap button.
If they refuse my restore ill be out 2 peices of quested stuff 
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Bayard
Rookie
Joined: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 69
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Posted: 09/12/05 - 14:39 Post subject:
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Nerf Hunters!
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Tav
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 894
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Posted: 09/12/05 - 16:49 Post subject:
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| Bayard wrote: | | Nerf Hunters! |
LOL Bayard.
Honestly, I don't think v1.7 changes will be unbalancing. A rogue will still be able to own a Hunter if they get the first shot it and avoid traps.
Our dmg output may be getting a smackdown though w/ 1.7. We'll see when it goes live.
BTW... 8-piece Gianstalker set bonus - 15% dmg to Multi-shot... 1956 max crit + 2850 maxed Aime Shot crit... a guaranteed insta-kill on most cloth/leather wearers. 
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Zab
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 1222
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Posted: 09/13/05 - 07:30 Post subject:
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Im not 60 yet but working on it and have looked at the new talent trees. Im on a pvp server so that had alot to do with it. Here is the build im going with
Marksmanship Talents - 20 points
Improved Concussive Shot rank 5/5
Efficiency rank 1/5
Lethal Shots rank 5/5
Aimed Shot rank 1/1
Hawk Eye rank 3/3
Mortal Shots rank 5/5
Survival Talents - 31 points
Deflection rank 5/5
Savage Strikes rank 2/2
Improved Wing Clip rank 5/5
Survivalist rank 5/5
Deterrence rank 1/1
Surefooted rank 3/3
Killer Instinct rank 3/3
Counterattack rank 1/1
Lightning Reflexes rank 5/5
Wyvern Sting rank 1/1
Was a tossup between wyvern sting and scatter shot. and while scatter shot is nice and all wyvern sting is better imo and in the way i hunt.
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Tav
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 894
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Posted: 09/13/05 - 10:52 Post subject:
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Zab... I found Wyvern Sting to not be as useful and Scatter Shot. You being on a PvP server, you'd especially want Scatter to be in your arsenal against gankers.
Plus, in instances, Hunters still probably won't be the preferred CC.
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Cardnyl
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 397
Location: FL
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Posted: 09/13/05 - 15:09 Post subject:
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Zab,
Your template isnt possible. Hawk eye requires 20pts bare min to unlock.
Wyvern sting is nice i guess if your jumping 2 people and want to remove 1 from the equation.
I cant imagine why youd want to take the savagestrikes talent over the +3% damage/crit chance talent. If you could care less about your dps in instances you can drop the monsterslayer talent and drop the points elsewhere. Consider the following:
| Code: |
Marksmanship Talents (21 points)
# Improved Concussive Shot - 5/5 points
# Lethal Shots - 5/5 points
# Improved Hunter's Mark - 4/5 points
# Aimed Shot - 1/1 point
# Mortal Shots - 5/5 points
# Scatter Shot - 1/1 point
Survival Talents (30 points)
# Deflection - 5/5 points
# Humanoid Slaying - 3/3 points
# Monster Slaying - 1/3 point
# Improved Wing Clip - 5/5 points
# Deterrence - 1/1 point
# Survivalist - 5/5 points
# Surefooted - 1/3 point
# Counterattack - 1/1 point
# Killer Instinct - 3/3 points
# Lightning Reflexes - 5/5 points
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Also, if your horde I know the urge to go with orc (axe's, pet damage, stun resist) is nice but consider the road less traveled (Tauren). 5% more hp from items is clutch but even more so is War Stomp. Scatter Shot and Stomp are really your only ways without engineering to stop a caster close range from casting.
They may not have the best starting agility out of the bunch but as far as im concerned lower agility is an ok thing, especially when dealing with warriors.
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Zab
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 1222
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Posted: 09/13/05 - 23:49 Post subject:
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Card, that is with the new 1.7 talent build. all the talents are switched around and point costs changed. im gonna go with scatter shot for now and see how it works. saw a few of the things you mentioned and going to redo them on the calculator and print em up. thanks for the info. NE btw
New build with 1.7
Hunter Talents
Minimum Required Level: 60
Required Talent Points: 51
Marksmanship Talents - 21 points
Improved Concussive Shot - rank 5/5
Efficiency - rank 1/5
Lethal Shots - rank 5/5
Aimed Shot - rank 1/1
Hawk Eye - rank 3/3
Mortal Shots - rank 5/5
Scatter Shot - rank 1/1
Survival Talents - 30 points
Deflection - rank 5/5
Savage Strikes - rank 2/2
Improved Wing Clip - rank 5/5
Survivalist - rank 5/5
Deterrence - rank 1/1
Surefooted - rank 3/3
Killer Instinct - rank 3/3
Counterattack - rank 1/1
Lightning Reflexes - rank 5/5
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ashwynd
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 1686
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Posted: 09/14/05 - 03:57 Post subject:
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my 5/33/13 build ain't too shabby. Improved aspect of the hawk is $$ for long fights like ragnaros. It goes off a fuckload. The best is when it goes off during rapid fire or rapid fire is up when it goes off and I click it on. Machine gun ftw.
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atarom
Guest
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Posted: 09/14/05 - 04:05 Post subject:
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all this hunter respec talk makes me want to reacttivate but i know id get bored after a week.
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Psink
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 872
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Posted: 09/14/05 - 04:11 Post subject:
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What kinda agi you guys on with these new talents?
Hunter in my guild was at 610 Agi for Rag tonight 
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Cardnyl
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 397
Location: FL
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Posted: 09/14/05 - 09:51 Post subject:
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| Zab wrote: | Card, that is with the new 1.7 talent build. all the talents are switched around and point costs changed. im gonna go with scatter shot for now and see how it works. saw a few of the things you mentioned and going to redo them on the calculator and print em up. thanks for the info. NE btw
New build with 1.7
Hunter Talents
Minimum Required Level: 60
Required Talent Points: 51
Marksmanship Talents - 21 points
Improved Concussive Shot - rank 5/5
Efficiency - rank 1/5
Lethal Shots - rank 5/5
Aimed Shot - rank 1/1
Hawk Eye - rank 3/3
Mortal Shots - rank 5/5
Scatter Shot - rank 1/1
Survival Talents - 30 points
Deflection - rank 5/5
Savage Strikes - rank 2/2
Improved Wing Clip - rank 5/5
Survivalist - rank 5/5
Deterrence - rank 1/1
Surefooted - rank 3/3
Killer Instinct - rank 3/3
Counterattack - rank 1/1
Lightning Reflexes - rank 5/5 |
Was basing it off a 1.7 test server calculator, based on your response im guessing this isnt what the talent tree in game post patch looks like.
http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Talents.View.Test&category_select_id=11
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Tav
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 894
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Posted: 09/15/05 - 11:41 Post subject:
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| Psink wrote: | What kinda agi you guys on with these new talents?
Hunter in my guild was at 610 Agi for Rag tonight |
I'm @ 432 base Agi. *if* I went Survival tree to get 5 points into LR, would put me @ 497 Base Agi.
(15% of base added).
Plus with MOTW or GOTW (12 points) and Kings = 10% to stats
I'd be at 560 Agi.
Add Mongoose and Potion of Greater agi... Yeah... totally doable to get 600+Agi. Sounds f*****g nuts.
But alas, I went Marksman and will stay that way until I can compare against the other top hunter in guild in the next MC clearing.
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Zab
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 1222
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Posted: 09/15/05 - 17:29 Post subject:
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im only lvl 33 atm but im running just under 120 agi ( think like 117? ) unbuffed. This isnt the greatest in my guild atm ( other hunter is 35 and running 140ish ) but i have more mana than the other hunter and so far mana has been my biggest problem so im happy.
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Cardnyl
Luke Warm
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 397
Location: FL
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Posted: 09/19/05 - 15:11 Post subject:
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ok i had a look at the updated template builder on blizzards website.
Not much has really changed, I still feel this to be the strongest pvp build.
Pvp build
You can trade out monsterslaying for surefooted based on weather you have 5% to hit from items already. If your an orc, it might be a good idea to pass on the monsterslaying and go with the surefooted instead to keep you competitive versus warriors and rogues (Hamstring and crippling poison respectively).
As an aside, post patch I find you hunters to be an actual pain in the ass and worthy of my attention. I now make a very very concerted effort to kill your pet before I kill you where as before I would only do it if I was feeling particularly vicious. Im basing this entirely after 30 or so matches of AB.
Speaking of AB, nothing says loving like a solid day devoted to AV on a double honor day with a team that literally could not be beat. If your trying to PUG AB, dont bother. With your guild and a vent server you should be able to trounce your opponents in < 10min vs PUG opponents.
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