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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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 Posted: 01/29/04 - 00:17 Post subject: How is hip hop connected to american culture or indentity?
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Any ideas appreciated especially any involving defeatism, hedonism, and **** appeal from wherenws.
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Minion
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Posts: 3474
Location: The Ghetto
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 00:23 Post subject: Re: How is hip hop connected to american culture or indentit
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| lauren000 wrote: | | Any ideas appreciated especially any involving defeatism, hedonism, and **** appeal from wherenws. |
It's not. Infact the only aspect of hip hop that can even be attributed to the U.S. culture identity is the phenomenon known as "n***a."
Edit: Incase anyone misinterpreted that, I'm referring to the word, not the people.
Last edited by Minion on 01/29/04 - 00:25; edited 1 time in total
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r00typooh
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5178
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 00:24 Post subject:
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i wish hip hop would die.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12940
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 00:37 Post subject:
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| [AW]r00tus wrote: | | i wish hip hop would die. |
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 00:39 Post subject:
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How many of you have coworkers that blare country music at your desk 8 hours a day everyday? I do, and it's not pleasant.
I'll take hip hop any day of the week over that.
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NickPSH
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5680
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 00:41 Post subject:
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I love Chapelle show, it's somewhat a product of hip-hop.
Meet the Niggar family!
Waiter: "Johnson party of five.."
Waiter: "Johnson party of five.."
Waiter: "Niggar, party of 3.."
Milk Man: "You don't have to be so damn racist!"
The Niggar Family: "That's us!"
Milk Man: "Ohhh! Hi, this is my wife (to wife) This is the Niggar I was talking to you about!"
Wife: "The one who broke a bottle over your head at that game?"
Milk Man: "No not that niggar!"
(It was probably more funny, that's just offhand memory)
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Guest
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 00:42 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | How many of you have coworkers that blare country music at your desk 8 hours a day everyday? I do, and it's not pleasant.
I'll take hip hop any day of the week over that. |
How did I know.
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Roskoe
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 651
Location: South Florida
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 00:46 Post subject:
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| Tizitchy Tinkergnome wrote: | I love Chapelle show, it's somewhat a product of hip-hop.
Meet the Niggar family!
Waiter: "Johnson party of five.."
Waiter: "Johnson party of five.."
Waiter: "Niggar, party of 3.."
Milk Man: "You don't have to be so damn racist!"
The Niggar Family: "That's us!"
Milk Man: "Ohhh! Hi, this is my wife (to wife) This is the Niggar I was talking to you about!"
Wife: "The one who broke a bottle over your head at that game?"
Milk Man: "No not that niggar!"
(It was probably more funny, that's just offhand memory) |
Hahaha, that was probably one of the funniest skits I've seen in my entire life.
"I know not to get between a niggar and his pork"
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Roskoe
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 651
Location: South Florida
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 00:51 Post subject: Re: How is hip hop connected to american culture or indentit
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| lauren000 wrote: | | Any ideas appreciated especially any involving defeatism, hedonism, and **** appeal from wherenws. |
It's not. It's connected to African culture.
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r00typooh
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5178
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 00:54 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | How many of you have coworkers that blare country music at your desk 8 hours a day everyday? I do, and it's not pleasant.
I'll take hip hop any day of the week over that. |
i <3 country.
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Clevinger
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3765
Location: Austin
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 00:55 Post subject:
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Country is true american music.
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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 00:56 Post subject: Re: How is hip hop connected to american culture or indentit
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| Roskoe wrote: | | lauren000 wrote: | | Any ideas appreciated especially any involving defeatism, hedonism, and **** appeal from wherenws. |
It's not. It's connected to African culture. |
one could also take the stance that african culture is defeatism, hedonism, and **** appeal.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 01:01 Post subject:
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I can't stand country. The faux accents drive me crazy and the same 3 themes keep popping up. Hip hop isn't much better, but at least there's more layering of keyboards, vocals, etc. to keep it interesting. At least for me anyways.
Lately I've been listening to movie soundtracks, though. I think I have Tron, Last of the Mohicans, and Master & Commander in my car.
/shrug
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Guest
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 01:06 Post subject:
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I'm in the Garth Brooks, central park concert video:)
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Paden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 9362
Location: North CAROLINA!
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 01:32 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | I can't stand country. The faux accents drive me crazy and the same 3 themes keep popping up. Hip hop isn't much better, but at least there's more layering of keyboards, vocals, etc. to keep it interesting. At least for me anyways.
Lately I've been listening to movie soundtracks, though. I think I have Tron, Last of the Mohicans, and Master & Commander in my car.
/shrug |
country music rawks
that is all
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Paden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 9362
Location: North CAROLINA!
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 01:35 Post subject:
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| Kbarr wrote: | | I'm in the Garth Brooks, central park concert video:) |
damn it kbarr you need to post a recent pic!
buy a throw away camra! take some pics! and tell kodak to throw them on a CD R
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ATM Banana
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 8575
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 03:18 Post subject:
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i want to see!!!
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Zwadrich
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 5015
Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 06:03 Post subject:
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| Paden wrote: |
country music rawks
that is all |
ok, you're lost now man... 
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principessa
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 07:55 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | How many of you have coworkers that blare country music at your desk 8 hours a day everyday? I do, and it's not pleasant.
I'll take hip hop any day of the week over that. |
I'll pass on both, thx :p
There are no decent radio stations (rock/alt) in southern Arkansas, and I can't play music at work, so am left with cds in the car and at home 
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16398
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 09:09 Post subject:
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there are classes about hip hop and american culture at harvard.
all sorts of universities are studying this form of "art" as it relates to our society.
it's actually interesting when you look at it from a socialogical/anthropological standpoint imo.
i think it's fascinating.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 09:55 Post subject:
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| atarom wrote: | | it's actually interesting when you look at it from a socialogical/anthropological standpoint imo. i think it's fascinating. |
I like those evolution posters showing ape turning into man, too! It reminds me of hiphop guys on the left.
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Reebo
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1260
Location: Downtown Miami
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 11:28 Post subject:
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I don't really see that there is such a thing as "american" music.
There will always be at least 3 top types of music
Some form of pop/dance
Some form of hip/hop/rap/jazz/blues
Some form of rock/alternative
As for me the future is Video Game music!
Megaman Greatest Hits Album!
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 13:25 Post subject:
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I don't like rap. I like a few that have catchy rhythms, but in general it's too base for me. The subject matter, that is. I can respect the execution of the rap.
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compusmack
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 6354
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Posted: 01/29/04 - 18:02 Post subject:
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I really don't care for country or rap, but rap is the easier one for me to tolerate.
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lotek
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1598
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Posted: 02/03/04 - 15:41 Post subject:
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Here is what Ben Stein says about rap/hiphop and american culture:
http://www.eonline.com/Gossip/Morton/Archive/2003/030807.html
Rap Amuses Me and Makes Me Think--but What Do White Suburban Kids Like My Son See in It?
Long ago and far away, when I was a student at Yale Law School along with Hillary Rodham, I took a class in the Yale Drama School about film criticism. If I may say so, I was pretty good at it, and my teacher, the great Stanley Kauffmann, said I should spend my life writing about popular culture.
I was at first stunned and horrified by the amount of violence, profanity, misogyny and coarseness.
In fact, I did that for years for the Wall Street Journal and the American Spectator. I also taught it at American University in the days of 'ludes and Percodan, at UC Santa Cruz in the days of weed and hash and latterly at wholesome, clean-cut Pepperdine. I even wrote a book about it (The View from Sunset Boulevard, alas, long out of print).
This all comes to mind because about six months ago, my 15-year-old son, Tommy, slid a CD into my Caddy's disc player. It was gangsta rap, a song called "What's the Difference (Between You and Me)" by Dr. Dre, rap singer, songwriter and producer of the very highest magnitude. Eminem is also in the mix.
I was at first stunned and horrified by the amazing amount of violence, profanity, misogyny and coarseness in the song. But it was also compelling because of its beat, its humor and its mighty originality. I could not stop listening to it or to the disc from which it came, a little item by the name of Chronic 2001. (Chronic is a form of very strong marijuana.)
Since then, I have probably played that disc 200 times, as well as several others by Dr. Dre and Snoop Doggy Dogg and little bits by Eminem.
In fact, I cannot stop listening, and it's a funny sight to see me and my son in his little gangsta car (a Subaru Impreza WRX ) with huge bass speakers, listening to rap as we drive through Beverly Hills.
But the rap not only amuses me, it makes me think, What is going on in rap music? What happens in its songs, what feelings does it reveal, and what do young white suburban kids like my son see in it?"
Clearly, it is too big a subject for this column, but I can make a few stabs and suggest that USC have a symposium about it. I'll absolutely be there.
First, what leaps out at a white middle-class man like me is the stupefying use of the N-word, which supposedly causes irreparable anguish if said by a white person but which is heard endlessly in rap.
But it was also compelling because of its beat, its humor and its mighty originality.
I think it serves several functions. It is a term of endearment among and between rappers, expressing their feelings of persecution, brotherhood, exclusivity vis-à-vis whites--and also their wish to shock the listener. (That last is a big part of what is going on in all areas of rap.)
However, it has a very unfortunate consequence, as I notice that white people who listen to rap now routinely refer to blacks by N-words, and it is not a step forward.
Second, rap is staggeringly antiwoman. It amazes me that the women's-rights lobby is too busy fighting for abortion and for allowing multimillionaire females into country clubs to notice that the most popular musical form among youth today routinely refers to all women (not some but all) as ho's and b*****s.
I notice that white people who listen to rap now routinely refer to blacks by N-words, and it is not a step forward.
The standard references are to use them for ****, beat them up, make them work as prostitutes, breed them--but never, and I mean never, show them any respect except for being good singers. There's regular discussion of killing women, cutting their throats, strangling them, beating them if they do not turn over their money--and it is breathtakingly antisocial and antihuman.
My theory (admittedly strictly Freudian) is that all of this hatred of women is based on male feelings of extreme dependency and revolt against those feelings engendered by having grown up in families in which only the mother was present.
These feelings of dependence and powerlessness are reversed in rap, where the women are powerless ( "G's up, ho's down" is a common refrain--G being shorthand for gangsta) and the men (the grown little boys ) have all of the power by virtue of their (fake) self-confidence and physical strength. (Okay, I would love to hear some thoughts on this.)
Third, and the Marxists will hate this, rap is probably the most pro-capitalist musical form ever invented. There is nothing here about class solidarity, about revolution against globalism, about the evils of capital. Instead, there are endless lyrics about how great money is and what great things it buys when you are successful at rap or at selling drugs or women.
Cars, snowmobiles, houses on suburban acres, floor seats to watch the Lakers, all of these are mentioned and worshiped in the rap I have been hearing.
One of the most common refrains, in these words or close to them, is about rolling down the street, smoking Indo (a form of pot), sipping on gin and juice--and then the punch line--"with my mind on my money and my money on my mind."
Rap is very much about the worship of money. Whether that is a good or bad thing I have not decided, but it is more about it than any other musical form I am aware of. Sorry, Governor Dean.
Yes, rap is largely about violence and bragging about how tough and dangerous the rappers are (to the point that it is sad in its obsession with the need for vulnerable humans to feel invulnerable). But beyond that, it is about the total tragedy of violence in African-American neighborhoods.
Rap is very much about the worship of money. Whether that is a good or bad thing I have not decided.
In one song, Dr. Dre says, "I can't never leave my house without a murder weapon..." And then he says he cannot live like that any longer. Then in another song, he says he's leaving and going to a place where no one wants to shoot him (maybe Beverly Hills!).
And in yet another, he, Knoc-Turn'Al, Eminem and Hittman sing about how in their neighborhood all they hear is "Bang Bang," the sound of children killing one another with AK-47's. It is a sad song, indeed.
In the next tune on Chronic 2001, Dr, Dre raps about the loss of a close friend and brother named Tyree. It is truly heartbreaking and shows the weakness inside the tough guy.
But along with the social analysis, another message screams out: The power of these songs is simply overwhelming. They blow away any competition for the music lover's dollar. Compared with them, only the most mighty pre-1979 Dylan and old Rolling Stones has any vitality.
The beat is impossible to resist. The messages are upsetting while at once overwhelmingly fresh and compelling.
This is a whole new continent, and I plan to live in it for a while. I am only sad I didn't pay more attention sooner.
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GruntingCod
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6399
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Posted: 02/03/04 - 15:54 Post subject:
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Hiphop is a peice of shit. Everyone that listens to it is a peice of shit. They should all die. The person that invented hiphop caused the infestation of douche bags, I.E. wiggers in our country, in which makes us look bad to all the other countrys that laugh at us becasue we have such stupid f***s walking around. Who in their right mind, wants to be black... well obviously a wigger does. They want to be f****d with, hung, treated poorly, etc. YAY for wiggers, hiphop, rap, etc. I LOVE USA!
The End!
Thats what I would write, seriously... if I got a shit grade or not. Rather I would explain my self more, and give more facts but pretty much that.
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GruntingCod
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6399
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Posted: 02/03/04 - 16:01 Post subject:
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| [AW]r00tus wrote: | | Akronn wrote: | How many of you have coworkers that blare country music at your desk 8 hours a day everyday? I do, and it's not pleasant.
I'll take hip hop any day of the week over that. |
i <3 country. |
I would listen to country over hiphop or rap anyday. Although I don't listen to either, at least country music has talent. These f*****g wegros and black folk singing this b******t talking about how their c***s are 50 inches long and how they f**k b*****s with them (I am not a feminist(sp)) and kill cops and shit, is the stupidest shit ever. I am so sick of it.
This reminds me of the story of the mother that had 3 of her kids, between 3 and 12 dressed like a f*****g peice of shit wigger. I told her that she was a horrible mother and she started talking like a ghetto black b***h. I wish she wasn't a lady I would have punched her straight in the face... god this shit rhiles me up. God damn it Lauren 
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Roskoe
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 651
Location: South Florida
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Posted: 02/03/04 - 16:04 Post subject:
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Wow.
GC is a f*****g moron.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 02/03/04 - 16:28 Post subject:
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Great article by Stein. Kinda tugs at my view on rap... but not enough to change my mind.
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Yanbik
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 1575
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Posted: 02/03/04 - 16:54 Post subject:
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bluegrass > country
ill take bluegrass over country anyday, get hype w/ the banjo.
hiphop > techno/trance b******t
Making shit w/ lots of beats a minute doesnt impress me as great music. Especially when I can make stuff that sounds like a lot of that crap in like an hour w/ fruity loops. There are a lot of good techno shit like kraftwerk, prodigy, and aphex twin.
There is a type of music around dc called gogo which I enjoy a lot. Its a mix of "Latin beats, African call and response chants and American Jazz, throwing in a touch of soul with a continuous drumbeat." Def very hype music that will get you jumping.
I like all kinds of music w/ trance/techno/country at the bottom of my list but recently I have been divulging myself into more trance/techno and more country.
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