|
|
| Author |
Message |
Reebo
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1260
Location: Downtown Miami
|
 Posted: 02/27/03 - 09:49 Post subject: Guild Progression
|
|
|
I would like to start a everquest discussion and see if we can get something out of this besides flames.
If you want to flame go ahead but I want to find out something.
After this whole thing about killing AOW I noticed that on a lot of message boards guilds flame one another for killing things late.
I.E. The whole “That mob was two or three expansions ago” The question I ask is do you really believe that the fact that an mob is old means you must be that far behind in terms of progress as the mob in question.
So what I mean is if guild A kills AOW today and guild B kills RZ today does that mean that guild A is X amount of months behind guild B due to the fact that the mob from that expansion is X amount a months old?
The time difference in “X” is the amount of time between expansion release not the estimated amount of time it would take a guild to learn and encounter and gear up for it.
Back when another guild say guild E killed AOW there were no other expansions at the time so they had nowhere to go after said kill (well there was sleepers but you get the idea) but if guild A kills the AOW now it doesn’t mean they haven’t already killed many boss type mobs in the other following expansions.
Where as guild E had to start from scratch when SOL came out Guild A has been killing in SOL for along time and only has a few boss mobs left in that expansion as well. Add to
That the fact that Guild A also has had access to POP and some lower boss mobs there as
Well.
So if Guild A jumps from Boss mob of VEL to boss mob of SOL then lower boss mob of
POP the gap isn’t as far between as it seams by stating that Guild A killed a two expansion old mob.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
 |
Zwadrich
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 5015
Location: The Netherlands
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 10:13 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
In case of the PoP expansion.. it gave a lot of guilds acces to things they probally couldnt have killed before. AoW and Ntov were disigned for lvl 60 chars and to be really hard. TOday most guilds have lvl 65 MT'sthus making some encouters easier then they used to be
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Fluxus the Rogue
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 385
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 11:12 Post subject:
|
|
|
What we've ended up with are guilds filled with virtual newbies that skip content in order to try and keep up with FoH or Triton or <insert uber guild here>. People would rather PL or outright buy a 65th lvl character just so they can be on the bleeding edge of advancement and raid new content, when most of them have never even raided Naggy or Vox because that's "so 3 years ago."
It's a sorry state of affairs with no solution in sight. People want to skip content because their gear isn't as good as UberTank X. They buy tons of plat and hit the bazaar with a vengeance, buying droppable loot that they could never have gotten themselves.
This wasn't intended as an anti-twinking post.
My point was that the 'keeping up with the Jones's" mentality has widened the gap between top-tier guilds and everybody else. There used to be a place in EQ for guilds that were beyond 32k mobs, but not quite ready for full-out planar assault. But, that's not the case anymore. Why? Because so many people feel like working towards a Vindi kill is useless when you can just hop to other guilds and jump right on up to killing top-tier content.
Maybe it's because EQ2 is 8 months away and people want to see the End Game before it fades away. Maybe it's a result of mudflation gone mad. Personally, I find the comparisons of high-end guild targets and mid-level guild targets to be irrelevent. Because at some point, those high-end guilds had a lot of fun dying time after time trying to kill the Vindicator. If somebody can have fun doing that today, more power to 'em. Of course, his loot is absolute trash... loot at what Furor is wearing! (sarcasm).
Uber guilds must die. 
That is all.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 11:35 Post subject:
|
|
|
I do everything I can to keep my guys in check.. you and I are on the same wavelength Fluxus..
To me, killing Vindi is still an achievement. We're wanting to attempt Statue but SA and CoS always beat us to it 
I've told my guys time and time again that despite what we *could* be doing, we're sticking to what we *should* be doing.. it's the natural progression of things. Yeah in some cases we skipped one expansion ahead to try some Luclin named but as of right now our focus remains high end Velious content.. NToV has more high level mobs than you can shake a stick at.. plenty for us there to do..
Everyone else have fun in VT and elemental planes.. I'm working at my own pace here.
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Reebo
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1260
Location: Downtown Miami
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 11:45 Post subject:
|
|
|
I agree with you all, the way i see it this is still a game and for me at least i was the kind of guy who wanted to see all the area's of that game.
Take FF7, i beat it then found out i missed so much so i played it again and it was great and im glad i did it.
This is how i feel in EQ i want to see all the zone even places like VP that people hate getting keys for. VT is another zone, yes it sucks getting keys and stuff but i want to see it.
Even old zone without uber loot or mobs i want to at least visit so i can say i been there.
I don't understand why everyone thinks that if you are a raiding guild it must mean you are chasing some other guild. That's not always the case sometime all you are doing is testing yourself and you don;t care if you even catch anyone ahead of you.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Clevinger
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3765
Location: Austin
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 11:45 Post subject:
|
|
|
Competition is human nature. Without competition, EverQuest would not be nearly as fun. Why would you care what level you are? Why would you care what type of gear you have? Why would care what guild you are in? You wouldn't.
The guilds that "Powerlevel" and gear up and race do so because they strive to be the best that they can possibly be. The guilds that are skipping content do so not just to "catch FoH and Triton", most guilds know that those caliber of guilds are out of reach, they do so to compete against other guilds of their "tier" and to reach personal goals- i.e. CoS vs TS not CoS vs. ED.
The lines of guild progression have blurred, yes. However, the lines of guild progression have not faded away. For example, a guild will not jump from Trakanon to Arch Lich. However, a guild can jump from vindi to some of NToV. Before it would have gone something like vindi -> WToV/FB -> ST/Statue -> ST/some NtoV -> Vyemm/Vulak -> Tunare/AoW. Something this clear cut does not exsist anymore because a lvl 60 player could essentially be 70 with the Shadows of Luclin AA.
That is why you cannot make the argument of "So and so is X months behind" (thx Qald ~). For instance, when Velious originally came out it might have taken FoH, ED, Triton or whoever 3 months to break into NToV and eventually kill Vulak. All those guilds are #1 on their server, but you can take the #8 guilds on each server now and within 1 month they can clear all of velious.
Another thing that is creating for multiple guild's hasty progression through expansions is the communication factor. There will always be the trailblazers and the ones who follow. Naturally new material will hold up the first guilds to try the encounter, while the ones who follow will have the luxury of already knowing the entire encounter step by step. Serverwide messages combined with the more and more messageboards coming out only feed to diluting the encounters.
Fluxus, for the most part there is nothing wrong with twinks. In order for one to twink someone out they originally worked and acquired that platinum somehow (minus eBaying plat). If someone wants to PL someone to 65 then more power too them because that still takes like 15 days +.
Botch > Qaldyin 4 life
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 12:08 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Quote: | | Naturally new material will hold up the first guilds to try the encounter, while the ones who follow will have the luxury of already knowing the entire encounter step by step. Serverwide messages combined with the more and more messageboards coming out only feed to diluting the encounters. |
On the other hand, the "trailblazer" guilds have the luxury of trying new mobs at their leisure, without interference from other guilds. Spoiler information on most fights is nowhere near as valuable as the chance to attempt encounters repeatedly. Spoilers will tell you basically whether the mob is slowable or not, what he hits for, how many adds he has, what his AE is etc...all things you will know within 30 seconds of engaging him for the first time.
Trust me, put CoS on their own server with all their lucid shards and Emp keys and they would clear VT in under two months. Will they even see the Emp on TM in the next 2 months? Not a chance. If not for ED and then Awakened perma-killing the emperor, BC, Numinous, SA, hell maybe even CoS would have multiple VT clearings by now. Learning new encounters and farming gear is easy if you don't have a bunch of other guilds contesting you for it all the time.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 12:13 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Luturb wrote: | | Trust me, put CoS on their own server |
Now THERE'S a thought.....
We've just announced the opening of the Cazic-Zerg server..
(sorry .... I had to)
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Reebo
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1260
Location: Downtown Miami
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 12:24 Post subject:
|
|
|
Well i tried  at least it lasted for a while.
And im talking about any guild, i see new guilds in NTOV all the time.
I am taking over all not just COS.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Neoh
Total Newbie
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 28
Location: Michigan
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 12:54 Post subject:
|
|
|
How far and how fast a guild can go depends on two things.
Firstly how dedicated are your guild members?
If you raid less, you will get less accomplished as a guild. If you raid more, you will get more done. It's just that simple. Take a look at your guild. How many people are hard core players that raid 5+ days a week? How many raid once or twice a week? If you get 60 people who play 5 days or more a week, obviously you will get much more done than 60 people who play a couple of times a week.
Second, and most important is, how is your guild leadership?
Do you have 1 guild leader/officer who runs ALL the guilds events? Do you have 2? Maybe you have 5 or 6 dedicated guild officers that are around that know the game and know how to get things done. If you always have 1 or 2 knowledable leaders on and you have a strong raiding force, there isn't anything you cannot do.
I guess a footnote here would be ..what timezone is your guild on? Can you get to the uber encounters faster than guild X? This is not always a concern but at times it can be a significant factor.
It doesn't matter what mob your guild can kill or when you did it. Taking down big things come easy when you've got dedicated members and leadership... and the lewt makes the next encounter that much easier... It's a snowball, but your foundation is your members and leadership.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Grummpy
Luke Warm
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 322
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 14:09 Post subject:
|
|
|
I agree will most of what everyone is saying.
When I joined MOKB long time ago, We made goals and we reached them, reguardless of what other guilds were doing.
I remember working hard to get VP Keyed before a certian date so we could all go as a guild.
if i remember correctly 80% of the guild was VP keyed by that date.
That was a bigger goal then acually killing in VP.
our guild met its goal.
that allowed us to be the second Guild on TM to clear VP.
most other guilds thought it wasnt worth it cause loot sucked.
well we did it anyway.
Personaly I loved VP, most underrated zone in the game. thats another story 
I have played a lot of online games and one thing is forsure, the ranking ladder is set in the first 4 months of the games release. the first 4 months all the hardcore/powergamers push the game at extreme speed to get to the top they merge with eachother and form the "uber" guild while the rest of the people are still finding new keys on the keyboard.
the rest of the guilds that started at that time tail behind learning as they go. There the same as the uber guild just at a slower speed. And to me they are concidered almost equal to the Uber guild, just slower going.
after a few more months then comes the need for the Newbie guilds, which are more important then the uber guilds.
Why? well, they Train the unexperenced players on the basic "How to" part of the higher end game, and give the casual player something fun to do without pressure of being in the high end guild. it also shows them the true need for organization.
The newbie guild will allways be just that, a newbie guild. Dont fool yourself thinking "I can make this newbie guild a uber guild!" it will never happen. in fact its almost impossible to make a uber guild from a upper tier guild.
Everquest has a Order that kinda needs to be followed to work up to high end encounters, when you compair your guild to a guild that lets say is one year ahead of you its like compairing education of a 8th grader to a 9th grader.
the 9th grader learned and gained 1 years worth over you. the fair compairson would be how the 10th grader did when he was in 9th. but that opens another can of worms, like was the info/equipment out when the others did the encounter ect.
Real life rolls over into the game unfortunalty, everyones in such a rush to get to nowhere, Trying to keep up with the jones's and thinking that having "x" items will make them happier. well, just like real life it never ends, trick is to just be happy where you are and be happier if you move ahead.
I guess my point is forget about ranking and what others are doing, take on the encounters in your range to prepair you for the higher end ones, Want achievement? then Dont use the Walk throughs/strats and more importantly Dont look for the "atta boy" when you win.
and in the end thats the best thing you can do.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Zorlac
Rookie
Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 96
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 14:59 Post subject:
|
|
|
Competition is human nature. Without competition, EverQuest would not be nearly as fun.
- b******t. EQ would be 10 x more fun. I wouldn't have to take an afternoon off from work just to be able to make a key contested mob raid. I wouldn't have to mold my RL around the game because if we miss out on a chance to kill a mob, our progression would be slowed down. Right now, people in raid guilds mold their lives around EQ, not the other way around. You can't plan anything, if I want to watch TV I can tape it or watch the rerun, or plan it months in advance if I feel like it. You can't do that with EQ.
How would you like to go home, turn on the cable TV you pay X amounts a month and suddenly realize that you can't watch half of the channels because your neighbours are watching those? Sounds retarded no? Welcome to Everquest. Competition in Everquest is retarded, no one should compete for entertainment content in a non PvP game, keywords here: non PvP game. I enjoy my cable TV a lot with 0 competition, cable TV is entertainment (non PvP) just like Everquest is. I am sure 95% of the EQ players would love to have 0 competition, because this is a game where you "compete" vs the environment and not other players. If Joe Shmoe has 10 times my gear, I don't give a rat's ass about it.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 15:15 Post subject:
|
|
|
EQ competition amounts to timezone, not skill. ED and awakened have a clear advantage in this, and add to that a lot of players willing to put work like hours into EQ daily and they can lock down anything they want to in EQ. It's your free time, do what you want with it, but don't think you are gods gift to EQ because you are in an über guild.
Given the same amount of opportunities without pressure of someone breathing down your neck, the 4 or 5 guilds just under the top 'tier' would be just as succesfull as the top couple of guilds.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Fluxus the Rogue
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 385
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 15:23 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Take all of the very good points everyone has posted in this thread and put them in a blender. Make a shake with it. That there shake is the very reason that I wander the land with my uber-twinked roleplaying 12th lvl Erudite Paladin preaching the gospil of aggro management to newbies. I am on the road to recovery. Pass the shake.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 15:27 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Fluxus the Rogue wrote: | | Take all of the very good points everyone has posted in this thread and put them in a blender. Make a shake with it. That there shake is the very reason that I wander the land with my uber-twinked roleplaying 12th lvl Erudite Paladin preaching the gospil of aggro management to newbies. I am on the road to recovery. Pass the shake. |
That seriously ranks up there with the top 10 stupidest things that I have ever heard on Realpoor.. and it's not an easy list to make...
-Nah-
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Fluxus the Rogue
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 385
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 15:31 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Nahualli wrote: | | Fluxus the Rogue wrote: | | Take all of the very good points everyone has posted in this thread and put them in a blender. Make a shake with it. That there shake is the very reason that I wander the land with my uber-twinked roleplaying 12th lvl Erudite Paladin preaching the gospil of aggro management to newbies. I am on the road to recovery. Pass the shake. |
That seriously ranks up there with the top 10 stupidest things that I have ever heard on Realpoor.. and it's not an easy list to make...
-Nah- |
I didn't feel like you deserved all 10 spots to yourself.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Clevinger
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3765
Location: Austin
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 16:55 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Zorlac wrote: | Competition is human nature. Without competition, EverQuest would not be nearly as fun.
- b******t. EQ would be 10 x more fun. I wouldn't have to take an afternoon off from work just to be able to make a key contested mob raid. I wouldn't have to mold my RL around the game because if we miss out on a chance to kill a mob, our progression would be slowed down. Right now, people in raid guilds mold their lives around EQ, not the other way around. You can't plan anything, if I want to watch TV I can tape it or watch the rerun, or plan it months in advance if I feel like it. You can't do that with EQ.
How would you like to go home, turn on the cable TV you pay X amounts a month and suddenly realize that you can't watch half of the channels because your neighbours are watching those? Sounds retarded no? Welcome to Everquest. Competition in Everquest is retarded, no one should compete for entertainment content in a non PvP game, keywords here: non PvP game. I enjoy my cable TV a lot with 0 competition, cable TV is entertainment (non PvP) just like Everquest is. I am sure 95% of the EQ players would love to have 0 competition, because this is a game where you "compete" vs the environment and not other players. If Joe Shmoe has 10 times my gear, I don't give a rat's ass about it. |
No offense, but if you are this bitter about raiding and racing then you should not be playing this game because it has turned into a job for you.
By competition I was not exclusively refering to racing for content. Regardless of if you like the competition, you can not argue that it is not human nature. And without it, it wouldn't matter if someone took away all of your VT loot and replaced it with JB armor because what's the difference? What makes someone want something good? If it didn't matter why bother going out and farming VT uncontested for hours? It is the drive to make your own character better. And since whether or not your character is "good" is all relative to the players around you, then by going out and working to get better is essentially competing. If you really did not care about your own loot then why loot it? Why not give it to someone else who would actually appreciate it? There is a reason you are among the best equipped players in TA and that is because you put the time in to receive the best loot.
As for your cable analogy, I don't really see how that is revelant. One is a game where the objective is to work with other players to kill monsters, acquire gear, and gain levels; whereas the other is to sit down and veg out for hours. That is like comparing football to sleeping. It just doesn't make any sense.
Brutul- You made a good point, but I think that applies more to farming a mob rather than getting a 1 time kill. Everyone can get enough chances at killing a mob to get at least one kill if they work at it hard enough. Getting 5+ kills for farm status is different with all the competition, like you said. What Frax said about timezones is right on for that matter. TA can get numbers the fastest in the morning that is a fact.
People that say "skill" is involved in killing these mobs are not really correct. You need 2 or 3 officers that are motivated in developing a strat to kill the mob and you need members that can learn a few simple things to preform. It is more not messing up than skill. Don't get me wrong, some things require skill i.e. Mob positioning, pulling, cr'in, 4 botting on seru raids (thx sirrk ~), but not mashing CH button every x seconds, backstabing, dodging ae's, and tank mezzing.
Playing time is nice, but time management is much more important. Sitting at a raid CoH people for 3 hours accomplishes jack shit.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Zorlac
Rookie
Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 96
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 17:22 Post subject:
|
|
|
No offense, but if you are this bitter about raiding and racing then you should not be playing this game because it has turned into a job for you.
- If pointing out the cold truth about high end game of EQ equates in me being bitter, then so be it.
By competition I was not exclusively refering to racing for content. Regardless of if you like the competition, you can not argue that it is not human nature. And without it, it wouldn't matter if someone took away all of your VT loot and replaced it with JB armor because what's the difference?
- I don't ask for gear during raids because I want to be better than X, Y or Z. I gear my toon because the environment requires me to do it, if I dont' want to stagnate and play at the same level. If you want to progress, gear is the vital part of it. That's why people upgrade, not to compare virtual schlongs with eachother, although some probably do.
What makes someone want something good? If it didn't matter why bother going out and farming VT uncontested for hours? It is the drive to make your own character better. And since whether or not your character is "good" is all relative to the players around you, then by going out and working to get better is essentially competing.
- In a PvP game this would be quite true. But ... wait ... this is NOT a PvP game, thus I couldn't give a rat's ass about (insert shaman here) having better gear then myself. I gear up because I want to see tougher content, and tougher content needs better gear. Simple as that. You can't just walk into the Plane of Time with mediocre JB gear. Oh and my character can't be "good" compared to other players for the simple reason that I don't PvP, I don't duel, I don't fight other players. So my gear is irrelevant to everyone on the server. My gear is relevant to the level of the gameplay I am currently in it.
If you really did not care about your own loot then why loot it? Why not give it to someone else who would actually appreciate it?
- Read above. And if you didn't notice, this game is about loot, period. You get loot, your toon gains strenght compared to the environment and with this gain you can explore tougher content.
As for your cable analogy, I don't really see how that is revelant. One is a game where the objective is to work with other players to kill monsters, acquire gear, and gain levels; whereas the other is to sit down and veg out for hours.
- You pay 15 bucks + Internet connection for EQ. You pay about the same for cable (up here at least). You consider both items as "Entertainment". Thus you pay for "Entertainment". And I hope, you are watching TV for Entertainment and the same way you play EQ for Entertainment. Both things look quite similar.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
merdocc
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2038
Location: Pasadena Ca
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 18:05 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Nahualli wrote: | | Luturb wrote: | | Trust me, put CoS on their own server |
Now THERE'S a thought.....
We've just announced the opening of the Cazic-Zerg server..
(sorry .... I had to)
-Nah- |
Have you seen how many people we raid with nah? go to a sa raid and a cos raid you will have over 2x the people at the sa raid. It's just sad raiding with 100 people.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Mithrass
Rookie
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 53
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 18:09 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
As a teacher I strive to get my students to constantly set for themselves short term ATTAINABLE goals. I'm sure each and every guild that is in existence has set for themselves some sort of goals. Otherwise members of said guild will get discouraged and that would spell doom for that guild. Success breeds confidence! Confidence breeds more positive outcomes.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Pankrat
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 603
Location: Land of Paranoia
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 18:11 Post subject:
|
|
|
There is a spectrum of playstyle/views on loot, uber guilds, being first etc that Clev clearly leans more towards the "uber guild" mentality and Zor more towards I play to have fun. You are both right and it's just personal preference. I fall somewhere between you 2, I enjoy getting new loot, beating new content (new for me anyway), achieving goals, etc. I certainly don't mind if someone thinks my new toy is pretty cool and I get a sense of virtual pride and cyber penis enlargement because I'm a competitive person by nature, but its not the end all and I don't freak that some people have gear that makes mine look like crap.
Accomplishing goals with a team of people that you like is always fun, whether you are the first to do it in EQ, on your server, or if its just the first time for you and/or your team.
There are always be people who love to take potshots and will have xyz excuse why you suck, your guild sucks, and you didn't really accomplish crap. You can buy into their BS or blow it off. What they think only matters if you care.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Karst
Luke Warm
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 128
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 18:40 Post subject:
|
|
|
SA raids with 100 people? That's f*****g amazing since the raid function caps out at 72 people. Props to SA I guess for finding a glitch.
Now minus the sarcasm, what's sad is how 2 out of 5 times a CoS member chimes in on a topic it's about how bad SA sucks and SA is a gimp this or that.
Merdocc, Don't hate the player....hate the game.
If CoS can get it done with less people, that's awsum, but in the immortlized words of Richard Pryor " Who gives a f**k?" Have fun let CoS do it their way and let SA do it the way they like.
"Can't we all just get along?"
The CoS thread on AoW with 1 tank, well I thought to myself good for them thats cool. I even mumbled that after remembering how I once got f*****g steamrolled by a train before but I still had positive thoughts. Is it just me or does everyone in CoS hate all of SA's members just because there SA?
As far as SA having 100+ at every raid, I'd have to say it's unfounded b******t rambling of a virtual penis envy type. I wish someone from Sanctus could reply to see if they truly drag 100 f*****g people everywhere they go. Although I'm a n00b by CoS and SA standards, I find it jsut short of damn impossible to gather 100 people to be organized. In my small guild half the time we raid Orc 2 in EC most everyone is crying for ports and the like. I guess that's what happens when your raid can be wiped by a fire beetle though.
Karst 
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Pankrat
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 603
Location: Land of Paranoia
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 18:49 Post subject:
|
|
|
Kasrt it's ok, CoS always claim they killed xyz mob with the least amount of people ever and everytime you hear the tale the number gets smaller. They also always scream that any guild they are currently are in competition with are fek newbs, zergs and it takes 100 ppl for them to kill xyz mob (insert SA, TS, Pak, MoKB, you get the picture).
They also always attempt to train or spoil any other guilds attempt at a mob that they want to kill, not race mind you, but train and any other underhanded trick they can come up with. Then if they still lose they scream, yell, whine, b***h and petition. It's just CoS SOP (that's Standard Operating Procedure for the uninformed).
Big time virtual penis envy, but hey, what can ya do  ?
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Karst
Luke Warm
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 128
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 19:09 Post subject:
|
|
|
Wow thank you so much for the enlightening stories. It doesn'treally matter much to me since I don't fit in to high end game yet as I'm just having fun and learning. I just don't understand how Guild X can be proud of their accomplishments while slamming another at the same time.
Most amusing story I've "heard" although I can't vouch for validity is CoS accused SA of wrecking one of their KT attempts about a month ago. Well the toon in question was "dispelling their pets, rooting mobs, and just other malicious shit". Out of respect for CoS I want mention the accused toons name but after I done a /who all on the name it revealed a Level 1 Troll Warrior. Irony? or just lookin for a place to put blame for self inadequacies? I truly don't know. Where I'm at int his stupid ass game it just seems fun to make friends and be cooperative and respectful. It seems to be working for me.....but then again I'm not even psuedo-Uber so I probably don't understand the high end game mechanics. I mean after all by self admittance a fire beetle kicked my ass.
Karst 
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Clevinger
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3765
Location: Austin
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 19:21 Post subject:
|
|
|
- If pointing out the cold truth about high end game of EQ equates in me being bitter, then so be it.
It is the truth yes. But you obviously don't seem to enjoy coming home early and scheduling your day around EQ so then why the f**k play it if you hate doing it so much?
I gear my toon because the environment requires me to do it, if I dont' want to stagnate and play at the same level. If you want to progress, gear is the vital part of it.
Yes, you need gear to "compete" so that you can kill end game content. I could be wrong but compete is the root word in competition.
If you really did not care about your own loot then why loot it? Why not give it to someone else who would actually appreciate it?
- Read above. And if you didn't notice, this game is about loot, period. You get loot, your toon gains strenght compared to the environment and with this gain you can explore tougher content.
And you can read above ^^
What makes someone want something good? If it didn't matter why bother going out and farming VT uncontested for hours? It is the drive to make your own character better. And since whether or not your character is "good" is all relative to the players around you, then by going out and working to get better is essentially competing.
- In a PvP game this would be quite true. But ... wait ... this is NOT a PvP game, thus I couldn't give a rat's ass about (insert shaman here) having better gear then myself. I gear up because I want to see tougher content, and tougher content needs better gear. Simple as that. You can't just walk into the Plane of Time with mediocre JB gear. Oh and my character can't be "good" compared to other players for the simple reason that I don't PvP, I don't duel, I don't fight other players. So my gear is irrelevant to everyone on the server. My gear is relevant to the level of the gameplay I am currently in it.
Why do you come home early from work? Why do you race other guilds? Because you need "good" loot to progress to the type of content you desire to kill. The game is about loot. That is what drives you to make the RL sacrafices that you see fit to make. But by doing so you are competing to get the better loot and progress your character. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge this, it is the facts. The game is all about it, that is why you raid, that is why you gear up, that is why you level. For some it is to compete to see who can get the best equipment, or in your case it is competing to gear up your toon and kill "uber" content.
You cannot say the game would be as fun if it didn't have the raiding/equipping aspect that it has.
You can say someone has good gear and someone has bad. If you could not do this, than it would be okay for me to say some random lvl 5 untwinked shaman has just as good of gear you have, or that the Aten BP is just as good as the JB bp. Bottemline is some gear is better than others and some people are equipped better than others.
As for your cable analogy, I don't really see how that is revelant. One is a game where the objective is to work with other players to kill monsters, acquire gear, and gain levels; whereas the other is to sit down and veg out for hours.
- You pay 15 bucks + Internet connection for EQ. You pay about the same for cable (up here at least). You consider both items as "Entertainment". Thus you pay for "Entertainment". And I hope, you are watching TV for Entertainment and the same way you play EQ for Entertainment. Both things look quite similar.
Yes, but one is a game and one isn't. In every game I can think of you compete. That is what makes a game a game.
EDIT: I think the reason we are seeing things differently is because we have a different view on what competition means. I am looking at the word from equipping, comparing, and racing and you are looking at it more from the racing stand point. Neither are wrong, just different.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Agaroo
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 132
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 19:34 Post subject: SA
|
|
|
Not that it matters one bit:
20 AL Kills:
Avg # of Mains: 51
Avg # of BOTs: 5
8 AoW Kills:
Avg # of Mains: 54
Avg # of BOTs: 6
9 HP Kills:
Avg # of Mains: 56
Avg # of BOTs: 6
Numbers should be extremely accurate unless we've got members who don't care about their points.
( mains and bots are split out because thats how our DKP system use to work, and I don't feal like putting the numbers together. )
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Grummpy
Luke Warm
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 322
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 19:51 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Quote: | Frax wrote:
EQ competition amounts to timezone, not skill. ED and awakened have a clear advantage in this, and add to that a lot of players willing to put work like hours into EQ daily and they can lock down anything they want to in EQ. |
so True so's true. ah' rememba' We happened t'catch Sleepuh's tomb spawn on some serva' reset so's we molded da damn respawn time t'a time in our favo' and bang, we owned Sleepuh's fo' upside 3 weeks!
den we missed one day,One day! and bang it went back t'de wrong time and dat wuz de end uh dat. Man!
So's yes ah' do see da damn advantage uh timezone Powa' as some facto'.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Dapht
Luke Warm
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 348
Location: ALaska
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 20:24 Post subject:
|
|
|
I honestly dont see why people make fun of other guilds for doing things with larger amounts of people. If a guild can constantly get the support (read: not demanded) for a raid, then hell more power to them. Why should they turn down people just because other guilds may make fun of them. Can they do it with less? Yes I am sure they can... Does that mean anything? It just means they can do it with less, nothing more nothing less.
Every guild has their own goals and desires. If a person in that guild decides they dont like it, that is why they have the /guildremove function.
Everyone has the same excitement when they kill "said" mob for the first time. Just because you do it a month or a year after another guild should not matter....
Dapht Git
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
quotison
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1594
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 22:29 Post subject:
|
|
|
I've gone on a few raids with SA and it seems to be around 50ish or so *shrug*.. not sure if those numbers are high/low since I hadn't gone past the zone in of Ssra until last week 
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Clevinger
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3765
Location: Austin
|
|
Posted: 02/27/03 - 22:41 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
SA doesn't zerg anymore than any other guild. There is pretty much only one zerg guild on the server that is out of control (will let yall decide which). Anyone who still tries to throw that around as an insult is poorly informed just like the people that tried to use it in regards to BC (yes, their first AoW attempt with 100 was a zerg but that is one of the only modern EQ examples).
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
