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Posted: 09/16/04 - 18:59 Post subject: Government says Iraq future bleak
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THIS is why you dont let morons sit in the Oval office.
| Quote: | U.S. intelligence pessimistic on Iraq future
Estimate, contrasting Bush statements, says civil war possibleThe Associated Press
Updated: 10:46 a.m. ET Sept. 16, 2004WASHINGTON - A highly classified National Intelligence Estimate assembled by some of the government’s most senior analysts this summer provided a pessimistic assessment about the future security and stability of Iraq.
The National Intelligence Council looked at the political, economic and security situation in the war-torn country and determined — at best — the situation would be tenuous in terms of stability, a U.S. official said late Wednesday, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
At worst, the official said, were “trend lines that would point to a civil war.” The official said it “would be fair” to call the document “pessimistic.”
The intelligence estimate, which was prepared for President Bush, considered the window of time between July and the end of 2005. But the official noted that the document, which spans roughly 50 pages, draws on intelligence community assessments from January 2003, before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and the subsequent deteriorating security situation there.
The latest assessment was undertaken by the National Intelligence Council, a group of senior intelligence officials who provide long-term strategic thinking for the entire U.S. intelligence community but report to the director of central intelligence, now acting CIA Director John McLaughlin. He and the leaders of the other intelligence agencies approved it.
Estimate contrasts Bush statements
The estimate contrasts with public comments of Bush and his senior aides who speak more optimistically about the prospects for a peaceful and free Iraq. “We’re making progress on the ground,” Bush said at his Texas ranch late last month.
“It states the obvious,” White House press secretary Scott McClellan said on Air Force One as Bush flew to a day of campaigning in Minnesota. “It talks about the scenarios and the different challenges we face.” He said it did not reach any conclusions and left it up to policy-makers to act on the information.
A CIA spokesman declined to comment Wednesday night.
The document was first reported by the New York Times on its Web site Wednesday night.
It is the first formal assessment of Iraq since the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate on the threat posed by fallen Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.
A review of that estimate released this summer by the Senate Intelligence Committee found widespread intelligence failures that led to faulty assumptions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.
Senators say risks of failure great
Senate Republicans and Democrats on Wednesday denounced the Bush administration’s slow progress in rebuilding Iraq, saying the risks of failure are great if it doesn’t act with greater urgency.
“It’s beyond pitiful, it’s beyond embarrassing, it’s now in the zone of dangerous,” said Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., referring to figures showing only about 6 percent of the reconstruction money approved by Congress last year has been spent.
Foreign Relations Committee members vented their frustrations at a hearing where the State Department explained its request to divert $3.46 billion in reconstruction funds to security and economic development. The money was part of the $18.4 billion approved by Congress last year mostly for public works projects.
The request comes as heavy fighting continues between U.S.-led forces and a variety of Iraqi insurgents, endangering prospects for elections slated for January.
“We know that the provision of adequate security up front is requisite to rapid progress on all other fronts,” said Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Ron Schlicher.
Related story
Powell doubts WMD will be found
White House spokesman Scott McClellan said circumstances in Iraq have changed since last year. “It’s important that you have some flexibility.”
But Hagel said the shift in funds “does not add up in my opinion to a pretty picture, to a picture that shows that we’re winning. But it does add up to this: an acknowledgment that we are in deep trouble.”
'Lack of planning apparent'
Hagel, Committee Chairman Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and other committee members have long argued — even before the war — that administration plans for rebuilding Iraq were inadequate and based on overly optimistic assumptions that Americans would be greeted as liberators.
But the criticism from the panel’s top Republicans had an extra sting coming less than seven weeks before the presidential election in which President Bush’s handling of the war is a top issue.
“Our committee heard blindly optimistic people from the administration prior to the war and people outside the administration — what I call the ’dancing in the street crowd,’ that we just simply will be greeted with open arms,” Lugar said. “The nonsense of all of that is apparent. The lack of planning is apparent.”
He said the need to shift the reconstruction funds was clear in July, but the administration was slow to make the request.
“This is an extraordinary, ineffective administrative procedure. It is exasperating from anybody looking at this from any vantage point,” he said.
State Department stresses progress
State Department officials stressed areas of progress in Iraq since the United States turned over political control of Iraq to an interim government on June 28. They cited advances in generating electricity, producing oil and creating jobs.
Schlicher said the department hopes to create more than 800,000 short- and long-term jobs over two years, saying, “When Iraqis have hope for the future and real opportunity, they will reject those who advocate violence.”
Congress approved the $18.4 billion in November as part of an $87 billion package mostly for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. At the time, administration officials said the reconstruction money was just as important as the military funds. But only $1.14 billion had been spent as of Sept. 8.
“It’s incompetence, from my perspective, looking at this,” said the panel’s top Democrat, Sen. Joseph Biden Jr. of Delaware.
In separate action Wednesday, the Senate Appropriations Committee agreed to shift $150 million from the $18.4 billion to buttress U.S. efforts to help victims of violence and famine in the Darfur region of Sudan and nearby areas. The transfer was approved by voice vote with bipartisan support.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 09/16/04 - 19:00 Post subject:
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George Bush (or any man in his position) can fix thousands of years of strife, ignorance and hatred? Wow! WOot!
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 7044
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Posted: 09/16/04 - 19:15 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | | George Bush (or any man in his position) can fix thousands of years of strife, ignorance and hatred? Wow! WOot! |
I think you're exagerating. The Republicans have only been around for less than 200 years, how could they have thousands of years of ignorance and hatred?
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Posted: 09/16/04 - 20:52 Post subject:
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It was a sand lot filled with animals, run by an animal. It will take a long time after the righteous crushing GW administered to set that shit hole straight.
Besides, since we are going to have bases there we might as well have something fun for all our troops to do! Target shooting at animals with 40 year old AKs sounds like fun:)
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Docter
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 21 Oct 2002 Posts: 3420
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Posted: 09/16/04 - 20:59 Post subject:
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Hmmm...how long did it take to rebuild Europe after WWII?
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 2398
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Posted: 09/16/04 - 23:53 Post subject:
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LOL just noticed Doc's avatar.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 09/17/04 - 01:18 Post subject:
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| Docter wrote: | | Hmmm...how long did it take to rebuild Europe after WWII? |
Germany and Japan were under Allied control for about 5 years each. Neither was allowed sovreignty until they agreed to be bound by military limitations as well as economic reparations.
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Reebo
Sir Postalot

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 1260
Location: Downtown Miami
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Posted: 09/17/04 - 10:07 Post subject:
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Iraq does not seam as masive of a war as WWII.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 7044
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Posted: 09/17/04 - 10:40 Post subject:
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Well, you need to compare likes to likes. Germany and Japan were the aggressors, so of course as the losers they were more badly damaged and required more extensive reconstruction.
A better comparison with Iraq might be something like Poland after the Nazis invaded, but that didn't last long enough to find out what would have happened. I'm sure they would have been "occupied" for a long time though. Or maybe Checkoslovakia after the Russians invaded: didn't they just install a puppet government and give them nominal sovereignty or something? Actually I can't think of a lot of historical examples where countries invaded other countries to effect "regime change", then left them on their own again, mabye because it doesn't work.
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Posted: 09/18/04 - 12:54 Post subject:
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We dont need no civil war hey yeah YEAH YEAH YEAH
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 09/18/04 - 15:19 Post subject:
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| Kbarr wrote: | It was a sand lot filled with animals, run by an animal. It will take a long time after the righteous crushing GW administered to set that shit hole straight.
Besides, since we are going to have bases there we might as well have something fun for all our troops to do! Target shooting at animals with 40 year old AKs sounds like fun:) |
Maybe you'd like to go out and replace some of the 19-year-olds who come home in a casket every week.
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Posted: 09/18/04 - 17:27 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | | Kbarr wrote: | It was a sand lot filled with animals, run by an animal. It will take a long time after the righteous crushing GW administered to set that shit hole straight.
Besides, since we are going to have bases there we might as well have something fun for all our troops to do! Target shooting at animals with 40 year old AKs sounds like fun:) |
Maybe you'd like to go out and replace some of the 19-year-olds who come home in a casket every week. |
If I was young, I would be there. I did my 3 years active and 2 and 1/2 years active reserves. I did my time, and put myself out there to be used anyway they saw fit. Then I did 18 years fighting the long war in Bedstuy. I lucked out of landing in a few caskets.
50 billion years from now everyone, everything, will be in a box.
What will have you done in the mean time, heh scumbag?
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Posted: 09/18/04 - 17:41 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | | Actually I can't think of a lot of historical examples where countries invaded other countries to effect "regime change", then left them on their own again, mabye because it doesn't work. |
Or, maybe, and I'll explain because its obvious you don't understand, no one has ever done it before?
No one has ever done what we are doing right now.
Yes c**t boy, I know you want to shoot it down because that will help the scumbag get in office. But we have been there a very short time, saying it can't work is strictly your liberal scumbag opinion. End game is a bit off, then we can really see how all works out. Either way, we will have bases in the middle east and that matters more than anything. They could continue to blow each other up for the next 60 years. As long as we have bases over there that can be used when we need them, its a win win .
Since stone age man started swinging a club, there have always been conflicts. Since the stone age era fights, someone always wins and someone always loses. We, everyone on the planet, are the end result of all those fights. Someone will win this fight, and someone will lose.
Its still playing out, you scumbag, who would you like to win?
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Dyers
Sir Postalot

Joined: 26 Oct 2002 Posts: 1269
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Posted: 09/19/04 - 04:25 Post subject:
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Like little kids in the car...
Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 7044
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Posted: 09/19/04 - 07:35 Post subject:
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It's convenient to define everything as an indefinite journey, with no actual milestones, and no idea exactly where the endpoint is, and insist that even though all indications are that we're going in the wrong directions, anyone who points that out is wrong, since the infinite journey hasn't ended yet. That way there can be no accountability.
No accountability is real handy, for this president.
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