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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12940
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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 Posted: 06/28/05 - 09:17 Post subject: Good to hear about Iraq, you f*****g tools
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Kinda opens an eye up. Can't wait to see this report.
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 5:33 PM
Subject: MOST INTERESTING REPORT FROM IRAQ
Hello folks-- Dan McGowan sent this quite different report from a cameraman just returned from a visit to Iraq. I think you will appreciate this different perspective.
Jpdgoc writes:
Hello to all,
I have returned from my 27 day trip to Iraq. It was a good trip, but I can tell you that I think I have had enough of that place. We shot a lot of good stuff but the show itself won't be on for a year or more.
I will tell you about some interesting things I saw.
I will say that things seem to be much better than they appear in the news reports. I was there during the big increase in violence but I can tell you that it doesn't seem to be having much affect on the people of Iraq and certainly not on the US troops.. The general feeling is that what we are seeing is the dying breaths of an insurgency. The insurgents no longer shoot at the soldiers. Most of the guys we are with haven't made contact with enemy in weeks. All they talk about is that they wish these guys would show their faces so that they can have a fair fight. The only weapon that they have left is the car bomb. Most of the big roads used to be littered with bombs but those are way down because the Iraqis are now doing the patrolling so the bad guys are now down to car bombs that they can make while in hiding.
I was at the site of a car bombing shortly after the explosion at the gate of a base I was on and the Army soldier who was at the gate when it happened said as the man drove up he saw that his hands were handcuffed to the steering wheel. Intelligence reports indicate that they are kidnapping men's families and then telling the man he must drive the car to a location or his family will be killed. They then follow him in a second car and remote detonate the explosive when he gets near the target. There have been cases when the driver has detoured and the car was exploded with little effect because the driver was trying to get away.
The bombs are now being blown in public places because the bases are very secure and the Iraqi forces have learned to protect themselves, so all that is left are the people. Speaking of which, I spent a lot of time on the street in and around Baghdad and I can say that in all of my trips to Iraq I have never seen so many people coming up to soldiers on the street to give them tips about bad guys. You have to be careful because sometimes it's a tribal or neighborhood feud that you are hearing about. One guy is just trying to get his competition in trouble even though he may have nothing to do with the insurgency. But it was exciting and encouraging to see a few people trying to cooperate with soldiers. I had never seen that before.
I also could not believe that almost every patrol I went on and every single raid I was on was done in tandem with Iraqi forces. In the case of the raids, the US guys are no longer kicking in the doors. They are only rolling for backup and in almost every case the commanding officer mentioned that while these guys are no Navy Seals they are improving by leaps and bounds. In parts of Baghdad the Iraqis have been assigned battle space without everyday US supervision. And they plan to turn over huge chunks to the Iraqis in the next few months. I was told several times that where they had tough neighborhoods and bad stretches of bomb filled roads they just send the Iraqis in and in a week and a half the insurgent activity goes down to nothing.
I know that even as I say all these wonderful things there was a big operation out at the Syrian border. We were told about the operation the day before it started and a general said that they believe that the previously uncontested area was the last good hideout for bad people. And a few days later when the numbers started rolling in we were told that as the marines were fighting street to street that the locals were coming out of their houses and pointing out the locations of all the bad guys. I definitely have never seen that before.
I also went to a memorial service for a fallen soldier. It was toward the end of the trip and I was feeling very good about all that I had seen and heard but the service really brought me down. It was for a kid from Escondido, Ca....25yrs old and on this day of his service he was actually supposed to be leaving to go home and see his two week old daughter....his third child. I will tell you that I tried not to cry but I was very unsuccessful. He was killed by a roadside bomb that hit him because he was the gunner sticking out of a Humvee. It brought back to me that it is still dangerous in Iraq and that there are still tough days ahead. I may make it sound like it's all good in Iraq but that just isn't true for that poor woman who is left to raise three kids. It really cut deep into my soul that day.
It's a tough job for the soldiers. I hated listening to his fellow soldier talk about him and how they all planned to rally around his wife upon their return. Things are getting much better and at a pace I never thought possible and I hope and believe that by the end of this year that there will be no more need for memorial services. We will have troops in Iraq for years to come I imagine but I see the Iraqi people standing up for themselves for the first time. We may never see an Iraq that looks, acts and holds close the values that we have as Americans but I can see the forming of a stable government and a military able to defend itself and to rid the country of radicals wanting to inflict terror. That's all we need to start bringing people home.
The morale was incredibly high...the food was great...the sleeping and showering conditions were at an all time high. Hopefully the end of 2005 will see huge strides in our withdrawal of troops. I believe us to be on that path.
Christian
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Frax
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 09:43 Post subject:
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Paco, the world is ending in Iraq, haven't you heard? STALINGRAD2!!!
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 09:45 Post subject:
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everything is fine...everything is fine.... everything is fine....
so which is it?
Rumsfeld Sees a Long Battle for Iraq
By Alastair Macdonald
Reuters
BAGHDAD, Iraq -- U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Sunday that American forces would not defeat Iraq's rebels but would make way for Iraqis to put down an insurgency that could go on for a decade or more.
His remarks came on another day of bloodshed when three suicide attacks around the northern city of Mosul killed more than 30 people, many of them police officers, highlighting the task faced by Iraq's U.S.-trained forces against a Sunni Arab revolt, backed by foreign Islamists, against the new Shiite-led government.
"That insurgency can go on for any number of years," Rumsfeld said in a U.S. television interview.
"Insurgencies tend to go on five, six, eight, 10, 12 years. Foreign forces are not going to repress that insurgency," he said."We're going to create an environment that the Iraqi people and the Iraqi security forces can win against that insurgency."
Handing over to Iraqi forces and withdrawing the U.S. Army that invaded to topple Saddam Hussein two years ago is a key policy for U.S. President George W. Bush as opinion polls show Americans turning against a project that many believed would rapidly produce a stable, pro-Washington government in Baghdad.
The deaths of six U.S. troops in a suicide bomb attack in Falluja on Thursday took the death toll above 1,730. Another soldier was killed in Baghdad on Sunday.
Rumsfeld said insurgent attacks were becoming deadlier.
The U.S. Middle East commander, General John Abizaid, said: "It's clear to me that by the ... early part of next spring next year to the summer of next year you'll see Iraqi security forces move into the lead in the counterinsurgency fight."
However, in a U.S. television interview, Abizaid added: "That doesn't mean that I'm saying we'll come home by then."
U.S. commanders say Iraqi forces will need their support for a long time.
The strength of Sunni rebels has raised concerns that they would sorely test troops fielded by a Shiite- and Kurdish-dominated government in any civil war.
The U.S. military in Iraq has been holding face-to-face meetings with some Iraqi leaders of the insurgency there, Rumsfeld and Abizaid confirmed Sunday, The New York Times reported.
The talks are part of the military's revised campaign to drive a wedge between the Iraqi and foreign insurgents, U.S. commanders say. Pentagon officials have acknowledged the new strategy but have not, until now, spoken openly about efforts to make contact with some Iraqi insurgent leaders.
Asked to respond to a report that U.S. military representatives met with several Sunni Iraqi insurgents twice in June, Rumsfeld said in a U.S. television interview that "there have probably been many more than that," and he described the contacts as an effort to "split people off and get some people to be supportive" of the political process in Iraq.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 09:46 Post subject:
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Rumsfeld is the same one who said it was almost over two years ago too. He's an idiot.
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Brael
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 09:48 Post subject:
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Nice, thats a hell of alot better than a thing I was reading earlier which said
| Quote: | | Although attacks frequently take the lives of American troops, Bush has said they will not leave until Iraqi security forces are trained and equipped to keep the peace. He has refused to give a timetable for troop withdrawal, even though some Democrats and a few Republicans in Congress are supporting a resolution that calls for Bush to start bringing them home by Oct. 1, 2006. |
Which just made me sad that anyone could be stupid enough to think it's a good idea to make resolutions that say we're leaving on x date nomatter what. All that does is motivate enemies to last another 15 months.
Nice report, wish the footage would be aviable sooner.
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sinrakin
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 10:17 Post subject:
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This makes me sad. We can't even put out believable propaganda anymore; that was some of the most stilted, transparent disinformation I've ever read. It was barely a step above the black and white world war 2 "newsreels".
It's interesting that viral marketing companies do such a better job at doing more or less the same thing. At least it does illustrate the fundamental principle that the market does things better than the government.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 10:23 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | This makes me sad. We can't even put out believable propaganda anymore; that was some of the most stilted, transparent disinformation I've ever read. It was barely a step above the black and white world war 2 "newsreels".
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Yup.
After I read the words 'bad guys' I disengaged ;p
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Brael
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 10:26 Post subject:
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Instead of bad guys you would prefer them to be called what? From the perspective of those fighting them... they are the badguys. Would you rather call them terrorists? Again from the terrorists perspective, those soldiers are the terrorists. Should they just be called the enemy? Thats still a negative connotation though which means they'll be looked at poorly. Whats the problem with "bad guys"? It's just as good as any other description.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 10:29 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | This makes me sad. We can't even put out believable propaganda anymore; that was some of the most stilted, transparent disinformation I've ever read. It was barely a step above the black and white world war 2 "newsreels".
It's interesting that viral marketing companies do such a better job at doing more or less the same thing. At least it does illustrate the fundamental principle that the market does things better than the government. |
yep
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 10:30 Post subject:
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| sinrakin wrote: | This makes me sad. We can't even put out believable propaganda anymore; that was some of the most stilted, transparent disinformation I've ever read. It was barely a step above the black and white world war 2 "newsreels".
It's interesting that viral marketing companies do such a better job at doing more or less the same thing. At least it does illustrate the fundamental principle that the market does things better than the government. |
Kind of like the quote in your signature?
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 10:30 Post subject:
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This reporter is nuts if he thinks they're not still fighting LOL. My brother gets shot at every f*****g day.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 10:41 Post subject:
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| Brael wrote: | | It's just as good as any other description. |
No, it isn't.
It's simplistic.
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Brael
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 10:42 Post subject:
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So you would call them what?
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 10:47 Post subject:
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| Brael wrote: | | So you would call them what? |
Pieces of shit?
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 10:53 Post subject:
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I believe Iraqi terrorists would be the most objective term.
Americans might call them insurgents. The terrorists might call themselves freedomfighters.
The way they fight is guerilla-like, used to inspire terror among everyone who opposes them. I don't think anyone disagrees on that. Therefore 'terrorist', even with negative connotations, is the best, most objective, term.
I'm a journalist myself and have been leaning more to the pro-side of this war in Iraq. But I personally do not value the opinion of someone who reveals a simplistic view on the entire situation through the use of certain terms and vocabulary.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 11:00 Post subject: Re: Good to hear about Iraq, you f*****g tools
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To summarize:
| Quote: | - Despite news reports to the contrary, things are far better than they appear
- The enemy is almost defeated.
- The enemy is afraid to show his face.
- The enemy has almost no weapons left.
- The enemy does not have popular support; people are being forced to help them.
- Our bases are secure and safe.
- The populace is now on our side.
- Our allies are improving vastly and will soon be able to manage without us.
- There is currently a large glorious operation in progress, with popular support for us, to defeat the enemies last stronghold.
- There's still a tough road ahead, but we should stick to it and think of sacrifices like <touching anecdote involving families and children>
- Soon things will be better; the end is in sight.
- Morale is higher than ever; we are on the path to victory |
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12940
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 11:01 Post subject:
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| Celestra wrote: | I believe Iraqi terrorists would be the most objective term.
Americans might call them insurgents. The terrorists might call themselves freedomfighters.
The way they fight is guerilla-like, used to inspire terror among everyone who opposes them. I don't think anyone disagrees on that. Therefore 'terrorist', even with negative connotations, is the best, most objective, term. |
the only people who call terrorists "freedom fighers" would be a "terrorist"
don't confuse the term insurgent with terrorist
if you listen to the iraqi people, they will refer to both
sometimes they side with the "insurgents" they feel are justified, but they also will call a particular group "terrorists" because they typically are foriegn fighters who come to kill americans. they care not for the iraqi people, and thusly, even the iraqis turn them in as they can
insurgents on the otherhand, would be the "freedom fighters", however there really has always been insurgents in iraq. they're the ones that saddam killed/gassed/tortured et al...there are ethnic groups there that don't all play well in the sandbox together..that's what you see. they want to be the dominant group, but it typically doesn't work that way, does it?
hope that helps
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 11:09 Post subject:
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I agree with you Paco, but you contradict yourself also in your post.
| Paco wrote: |
even the iraqis turn them in as they can |
| Paco wrote: |
...there are ethnic groups there that don't all play well in the sandbox together. |
There is no 'The Iraqi's'
Some Iraqi's support the terrorists. Others don't.
I don't confuse the terms, I'm just saying different people would call them different names. I think terrorist is the best. (Coz we're talking about the carbombing type yes?)
I have a dislike for the 'good guys vs bad guys' thing. It's just different people wanting different things and doing whatever they can to make that happen. I know which side I agree with, but I feel like I should be openminded enough to realize that other people are of an opposite opinion and in their eyes, they're the 'good guys'. So in an effort to view the situation with some sort of clarity I just don't think anyone should be using the terms 'bad guys' or 'good guys' in this. It's manipulative and creates polar opposites in peoples minds, where there is no room for compromise, or in other words: no room for peace.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 11:12 Post subject:
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| Paco wrote: | | even the iraqis turn them in as they can |
True to a certain extent. My brother and his unit have went to check houses were an Iraqi had called a hotline and told them there was a weapons cache there. But when they get there it turned out to be an ambush.
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motherface
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Joined: 12 Mar 2003
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 11:38 Post subject:
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| Brael wrote: | | Instead of bad guys you would prefer them to be called what? From the perspective of those fighting them... they are the badguys. Would you rather call them terrorists? Again from the terrorists perspective, those soldiers are the terrorists. Should they just be called the enemy? Thats still a negative connotation though which means they'll be looked at poorly. Whats the problem with "bad guys"? It's just as good as any other description. |
Call them rebels, like every other group that ever resisted an enemy's attempts to control them. Or call them cranberries. Who gives a shit? The bottom line is that anyone who really thinks of this as a battle between the biblical forces of good and evil is an ignoramus.
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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 11:56 Post subject:
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| Celestra wrote: | I agree with you Paco, but you contradict yourself also in your post.
| Paco wrote: |
even the iraqis turn them in as they can |
| Paco wrote: |
...there are ethnic groups there that don't all play well in the sandbox together. |
There is no 'The Iraqi's'
Some Iraqi's support the terrorists. Others don't.
I don't confuse the terms, I'm just saying different people would call them different names. I think terrorist is the best. (Coz we're talking about the carbombing type yes?)
I have a dislike for the 'good guys vs bad guys' thing. It's just different people wanting different things and doing whatever they can to make that happen. I know which side I agree with, but I feel like I should be openminded enough to realize that other people are of an opposite opinion and in their eyes, they're the 'good guys'. So in an effort to view the situation with some sort of clarity I just don't think anyone should be using the terms 'bad guys' or 'good guys' in this. It's manipulative and creates polar opposites in peoples minds, where there is no room for compromise, or in other words: no room for peace. |
That's right there ain't any room for peace. Peace is a 7.62 round in every one of their heads. They won't stop until they win or we kill them all. It doesn't matter what other people see them as. We are the good guys and if you think other wise then..your a bad guy.
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Brael
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 12:08 Post subject:
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| motherface wrote: | | Brael wrote: | | Instead of bad guys you would prefer them to be called what? From the perspective of those fighting them... they are the badguys. Would you rather call them terrorists? Again from the terrorists perspective, those soldiers are the terrorists. Should they just be called the enemy? Thats still a negative connotation though which means they'll be looked at poorly. Whats the problem with "bad guys"? It's just as good as any other description. |
Call them rebels, like every other group that ever resisted an enemy's attempts to control them. Or call them cranberries. Who gives a shit? The bottom line is that anyone who really thinks of this as a battle between the biblical forces of good and evil is an ignoramus. |
I didn't bring up the bible.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 12:37 Post subject:
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| Scrabler wrote: | | Celestra wrote: | I agree with you Paco, but you contradict yourself also in your post.
| Paco wrote: |
even the iraqis turn them in as they can |
| Paco wrote: |
...there are ethnic groups there that don't all play well in the sandbox together. |
There is no 'The Iraqi's'
Some Iraqi's support the terrorists. Others don't.
I don't confuse the terms, I'm just saying different people would call them different names. I think terrorist is the best. (Coz we're talking about the carbombing type yes?)
I have a dislike for the 'good guys vs bad guys' thing. It's just different people wanting different things and doing whatever they can to make that happen. I know which side I agree with, but I feel like I should be openminded enough to realize that other people are of an opposite opinion and in their eyes, they're the 'good guys'. So in an effort to view the situation with some sort of clarity I just don't think anyone should be using the terms 'bad guys' or 'good guys' in this. It's manipulative and creates polar opposites in peoples minds, where there is no room for compromise, or in other words: no room for peace. |
That's right there ain't any room for peace. Peace is a 7.62 round in every one of their heads. They won't stop until they win or we kill them all. It doesn't matter what other people see them as. We are the good guys and if you think other wise then..your a bad guy. |
I'm surprised noone has tried to push you back into your momma's womb.
'Back into the fiery pit from whence it came'.
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Scrabler
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 12:46 Post subject:
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| Celestra wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | | Celestra wrote: | I agree with you Paco, but you contradict yourself also in your post.
| Paco wrote: |
even the iraqis turn them in as they can |
| Paco wrote: |
...there are ethnic groups there that don't all play well in the sandbox together. |
There is no 'The Iraqi's'
Some Iraqi's support the terrorists. Others don't.
I don't confuse the terms, I'm just saying different people would call them different names. I think terrorist is the best. (Coz we're talking about the carbombing type yes?)
I have a dislike for the 'good guys vs bad guys' thing. It's just different people wanting different things and doing whatever they can to make that happen. I know which side I agree with, but I feel like I should be openminded enough to realize that other people are of an opposite opinion and in their eyes, they're the 'good guys'. So in an effort to view the situation with some sort of clarity I just don't think anyone should be using the terms 'bad guys' or 'good guys' in this. It's manipulative and creates polar opposites in peoples minds, where there is no room for compromise, or in other words: no room for peace. |
That's right there ain't any room for peace. Peace is a 7.62 round in every one of their heads. They won't stop until they win or we kill them all. It doesn't matter what other people see them as. We are the good guys and if you think other wise then..your a bad guy. |
I'm surprised noone has tried to push you back into your momma's womb.
'Back into the fiery pit from whence it came'. |
You will see things my way eventually. This time you're gonna need my help to save you from the muslims not the nazis.
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kbarr
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Joined: 05 Oct 2004
Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 12:50 Post subject:
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| Celestra wrote: | I agree with you Paco, but you contradict yourself also in your post.
| Paco wrote: |
even the iraqis turn them in as they can |
| Paco wrote: |
...there are ethnic groups there that don't all play well in the sandbox together. |
There is no 'The Iraqi's'
Some Iraqi's support the terrorists. Others don't.
I don't confuse the terms, I'm just saying different people would call them different names. I think terrorist is the best. (Coz we're talking about the carbombing type yes?)
I have a dislike for the 'good guys vs bad guys' thing. It's just different people wanting different things and doing whatever they can to make that happen. I know which side I agree with, but I feel like I should be openminded enough to realize that other people are of an opposite opinion and in their eyes, they're the 'good guys'. So in an effort to view the situation with some sort of clarity I just don't think anyone should be using the terms 'bad guys' or 'good guys' in this. It's manipulative and creates polar opposites in peoples minds, where there is no room for compromise, or in other words: no room for peace. |
Idiot.
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Soriak
Toomuchtimeonhands
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 13:17 Post subject:
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| Scrabler wrote: | | You will see things my way eventually. This time you're gonna need my help to save you from the muslims not the nazis. |
We don't need saving from a religious group. We need saving from people with a mindset like yours.
Think for a second what connects yourself to terrorists and nazis and you might just realize what the problem really is. It has absolutly nothing to do with religion.
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Celestra
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 13:33 Post subject:
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Coming from you, topcop, I consider it a compliment 
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Scrabler
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 13:34 Post subject:
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| Soriak wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | | You will see things my way eventually. This time you're gonna need my help to save you from the muslims not the nazis. |
We don't need saving from a religious group. We need saving from people with a mindset like yours.
Think for a second what connects yourself to terrorists and nazis and you might just realize what the problem really is. It has absolutly nothing to do with religion. |
The only thing that connects me is that people like me fight/fought muslims and nazis.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 13:47 Post subject:
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For a more realistic appraisal, current and signed by a real person, try http://www.back-to-iraq.com/archives/000879.php.
| Quote: | June 28, 2005
Bumps in the Road
BAGHDAD—The Americans have killed two Iraqi journalists inside of a week. One was killed Friday and I just heard news of the other. I know a lot about the first death, but at the request of his family, I can't publish much because his widow fears retribution for her husband having worked for a Western news organization. But he was killed with a single shot to the head by Americans in a passing convoy.
The second I don't know much about, as I just heard about it. Details haven't started coming in yet.
I think the Americans have gotten a lot more trigger-happy and twitchy after the campaign of car bombs and other violence that has gripped Iraq for the last, what? Five weeks? Six? I've lost track. I can't tell anymore what headlines from the Associated Press listing the number of dead are new bombings or just updated casualty figures from earlier in the day.
“We have a choice now,” said A., my gruff, scotch-drinking office manager, confidant and mentor in all things Iraqi. “We can be killed by Zarqawi or the Americans.”
Since returning, it feels like I'm listening to the same record I've been listening to for a year, only with the volume turned up. Donald Rumsfeld, the American Secretary of Defense, says U.S. is winning the war and that the media are focusing too much on bad news. I know this because the press releases from the American Forces Information Network tell me so:
...
“Bumps in the road”? Just earlier today, presumably before the Iraqi journalist was killed, an Iraqi member of parliament was killed in a car bomb attack. I can't even begin to tell you how many Iraqis have been killed in the weeks I was away. And how many more Iraqis, journalists or otherwise, will die because the Americans can't tell who's friend or foe? Those aren't “bumps in the road.” Those are signs that you went off the road without a map a long time ago.
Where do you even begin combatting the head-in-the-sandism, brazen propaganda and revisionism of the above release. (By the way, it's about the fourth or fifth one I've received in the last few days touting the same theme, apparently in concert with President Bush's push to let Americans know that everything is going hunky-dory.)
News flash: Iraq is a disaster. I've been back one day, and the airport road was the worst I've ever seen it. We had to go around a fire-fight between mujahideen and Americans while Iraqi forces sat in the shade of date palms on the side of the road, their rifles resting across their laps. My driver pointed to a group of men in a white pickup next to me. “They are mujahideen,” he said. “They are watching the Americans.” Indeed, they were, and so intently that they paid no attention to me in the car next to them. We detoured around two possible car bombs that had been cordoned off while Iraqis cautiously approached.
Rumsfeld's assessment of “good progress” on the constitution is not accurate, as the committee to draw it up still hasn't completely agreed on how the Sunnis will take part.
When I was in Ramadi, I found the morale to be lower than expected. It wasn't rock-bottom among the Marines of the 1st Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, but it wasn't great. Most of the ones I talked to weren't confident they were doing anything worthwhile, and were instead focused on getting home alive. If a few Iraqis had to die to make that happen, well, war is hell.
I'm not sure who's winning this war, the Americans or the insurgents. But I know who is losing it: the Iraqi people. Those bumps in the road are their graves.
Posted by Christopher Albritton at June 28, 2005 07:53 PM |
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Soriak
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 952
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Posted: 06/28/05 - 13:53 Post subject:
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| Scrabler wrote: | | Soriak wrote: | | Scrabler wrote: | | You will see things my way eventually. This time you're gonna need my help to save you from the muslims not the nazis. |
We don't need saving from a religious group. We need saving from people with a mindset like yours.
Think for a second what connects yourself to terrorists and nazis and you might just realize what the problem really is. It has absolutly nothing to do with religion. |
The only thing that connects me is that people like me fight/fought muslims and nazis. |
You're advocating exactly what the Nazis did: Eradicating an entire religious group on grounds that they somehow are a threat to you.
Yet you somehow feel proud that "you" (rather your ancestors) defeated the Nazis and their evil ideology?
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