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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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 Posted: 02/27/04 - 13:53 Post subject: For you people on the Haiti thread..
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http://www.isp.nwu.edu/~fprefect/politics/timeline.html
I know, I know....reading around here takes away from precious minutes that could be used talking out of one's ass, but please read this anyway!
1986-1994: Haiti
The US begins channeling increasing amounts of military aid into Haiti, supporting the represssive military and the failing Jean-Claude Duvalier dictatorship. The Duvaliers' brutal regimes had been supported by the US since it came to power in 1957, it was responsible for some 40-60,000 deaths through the death squads, known as the Tonton Macoutes. The CIA, at the same time, begins pooring an equal amount of money into elections backing military candidates until congress passes a hold on this in the late 1980s, and in 1990 a Catholic priest, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, is elected to the presidency. His term is cut short by a military coup later that same year and Artistide lives in exile until he is able to return with "assistance" from the US (Ex-Pres Carter intervened in some context, I believe, teaching Artistide the hard facts of capitalism and calling back our junta).
With friends like us how can it go wrong? The CIA formed FRAPH in 1993, a paramilitary death squad headed by Emmanuel Constant, that launched a terror campaign against Artistide's supporters. Numerous human rights abusers from the military (General Raoul Cedras, General Prosper Avril, Colonel Carl Dorelian, and Emmanuel Constant) moved to the US after Artistide's re-instatement. To my knowledge these men have never been extradited.
Haiti still faces harsh penalties, including a full embargo, enforced by the US government. Unlike the highly laudible open-arms policy towards Cuban refugees, Haitian refugees - with the apparent exception of those suspected of crimes against humanity - are sent back, to stay and suffer.
We put this guy in power (gee, how many times have we heard that one before?), we refuse to accept any refugees, and we're awfully damn slow on helping out now aren't we?
Course, now the powers that be have decided the man they put in power (Noriega, Bin Laden, Hussein ring any bells people?!) is no longer desirable. (According to US government officials speaking...when? oh TODAY THAT's RIGHT)
So who's going to suffer? Hatians.
"How exactly did you learn to make you anus speak?"
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 14:00 Post subject:
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One very simple question I'd like answered:
Why do we accept Cuban refugees and not Hatian ones?
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 14:05 Post subject:
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http://www.refugees.org/world/articles/RR_April_2002_INS.cfm
New INS Policy to Detain Intercepted Hatian Asylum Seekers
In April, more than 270 Haitian asylum seekers who have arrived in Miami since December remained in detention after being intercepted by the U.S. Coast Guard. The largest group arrived on December 3, 2001, after an armed attack on the National Palace in Port-au-Prince, the capital of Haiti, led to widespread violence. That day, the U.S. Coast Guard interdicted 187 Haitians off the Florida coast.
Generally, the Coast Guard returns interdicted Haitians directly to Haiti without an asylum screening. However, because the boat was severely overcrowded and unsafe, the Coast Guard brought most of the group of asylum seekers ashore. (Two drowned, and 20 swam to shore before the Coast Guard could bring them to shore). Fourteen of the interdicted Haitians were children.
New Policy for Haitian Asylum Seekers
Immediately following their arrival in December, the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) district office in Miami began detaining Haitian asylum seekers as a matter of policy—despite establishing that the asylum seekers had a “credible fear” of persecution.
Before December, the Miami INS office routinely released asylum seekers who passed their “credible fear” interviews—including 96 percent of the asylum seekers from Haiti. However, nearly all Haitian asylum seekers who have arrived in Miami since December remain detained, while 91 percent of non-Haitians who have arrived during the same time period have been released.
Initially, the INS denied any official change in detention policy. On February 15, the Florida Immigrant Advocacy Center (FIAC) filed a lawsuit in federal court challenging the INS’ detention of the Haitian asylum seekers. The lawsuit seeks the release of the asylum seekers, the reconsideration of at least 90 asylum requests already denied, and an injunction against the alleged policy of basing detention on race and nationality.
According to Cheryl Little, executive director of the FIAC, the Miami INS district director admitted to the policy of detaining all Haitian asylum seekers, stating that the INS did not want to send a signal to Haitians that they should embark on a dangerous journey.”
INS headquarters in Washington D.C. subsequently confirmed that it instructed INS in Miami not to release any of the Haitian asylum seekers without approval from headquarters. The INS reported that the goal of the new detention policy is to: 1) assure that Haitian asylum seekers appear for their hearings, which they are less likely to do because of the especially desperate situation in Haiti since December; 2) avoid a mass exodus from Haiti; and 3) save Haitian lives.
Expedited Asylum Proceedings
In addition to the detention policy, the INS has sped up the Haitians’ asylum proceedings (but not those of asylum seekers from other countries). Immigration judges have routinely denied detained Haitian asylum seekers’ requests for court continuances. As a result, Haitian asylum seekers must prepare their asylum claims in a matter of weeks.
According to FIAC, this has compromised the ability of the asylum seekers to adequately present their asylum claims. In one week, the immigration court at the Krome detention facility (where all of the detained Haitians’ asylum claims are considered) heard the asylum claims of 100 Haitians. Cases were scheduled for a half hour to one hour each, including translation time.
In contrast, non-detained asylum seekers in Miami usually have one year to prepare their claims and are given a minimum of several hours to present their claims to an immigration judge. Detained asylum seekers from countries other than Haiti are also given more time to prepare and present their claims.
According to a Miami Herald editorial, the combination of INS detention and expedited process makes it difficult for any Haitian to win asylum, regardless of the legitimacy of his or her case.
Other Obstacles to Asylum
An additional obstacle is the lack of attorney access to the detainees. FIAC, the Haitian Lawyers Association, Church World Service, and Catholic Charities Legal Service, which are attempting to provide legal services to the detainees, report that they often experience delays in meeting with their Haitian clients. Sometimes, they say, INS personnel are unable to locate their clients at all. At the Krome detention center, attorneys sometimes wait all morning to see their clients only to be told their clients have gone to lunch.
In addition, weekend visiting hours at the Krome facility have been cut from all day Saturday and Sunday to three hours on Saturday morning. At the women’s facility, attorneys have waited for an hour or more for an escort to take them to see their clients.
Confidentiality is a problem at both facilities. There is little privacy for attorney visits. Many attorneys are forced to meet with their clients in open rooms. Attorneys who are able to meet in attorney visitation rooms report that because of Plexiglas partitioning, they must shout to be heard, and can overhear the conversations of attorneys and clients in neighboring booths.
Detention Conditions
Conditions of detention are also problematic. Male Haitian asylum seekers are detained at the Krome INS detention facility; women are detained at the Turner Guilford Knight correction center, a maximumsecurity jail.
According to FIAC, the Krome facility is overcrowded (the normal capacity is approximately 525 detainees; recently the facility has held as many as 700). At the women’s facility, female detainees complain of officers “berating and humiliating” them and have trouble asking for medical or legal aid because the guards assigned to the immigration detainees do not speak Creole.
Some families have been detained in a motel, while unaccompanied minors have been held at Boystown, a facility for children.
Some pregnant women and unaccompanied minors with family members in Miami have been released. However, according to FIAC, one unaccompanied minor who is the beneficiary of a visa petition filed by his mother, a lawful permanent resident of the United States, was transferred to a juvenile facility in York, Pennsylvania, and continues to be detained.
A Miami Herald editorial called the INS treatment of the Haitian asylum seekers “discriminatory and inhumane.” Cheryl Little said that if INS officials were sincerely interested in saving Haitian lives, they would give Haitian asylum seekers a fair opportunity to apply for asylum. Little also recommended instituting refugee processing in Haiti, offering visas to some Haitians who wish to come to the United States (which are currently available to 20,000 Cubans per year), and conducting asylum screenings on intercepted boats.
Little also contradicted the INS assertion that the steps taken by the INS were necessary to avoid a massexodus from Haiti. According to Little, “one boat got through and they hit the panic button.”
Interdiction rates for Haitians since December have been comparable to the interdiction rates during the same period last year (822 from December 2001 to March 2002; 602 from December 2000 to March 2001). There were no interdictions of Haitians in January or February of this year; 319 Haitians were interdicted in March.
(In April, INS headquarters in Washington ordered the Miami district office to release Haitian asylum seekers arriving at the airport if their sponsors were able to complete affidavits of support on their behalf. However, there was no change in policy for Haitians arriving by boat. )
Anus Speaking III: Is that an ability you guys learned at lvl 60?
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 14:09 Post subject:
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"A Miami Herald editorial called the INS treatment of the Haitian asylum seekers “discriminatory and inhumane.” Cheryl Little said that if INS officials were sincerely interested in saving Haitian lives, they would give Haitian asylum seekers a fair opportunity to apply for asylum. Little also recommended instituting refugee processing in Haiti, offering visas to some Haitians who wish to come to the United States (which are currently available to 20,000 Cubans per year), and conducting asylum screenings on intercepted boats."
We let 20,000 Cubans come over on visas. We let even more just flat out immigrate here; and from a country who's dictator we've been trying to oust since he came into power like 40 some odd years ago.
I'm sure the mere coincidence that Hatians are black is just that: coincidence! It couldn't POSSIBLY play a part in this, could it?
Luturb and Hitachi, maybe you can show me YOUR psychology degree, and some facts to show why you're both so goddamned sure of yourselves.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 14:25 Post subject:
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Shut the f**k up.
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 14:29 Post subject:
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Ignorance IS bliss, isn't it? 
*kiss for the redneck*
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 15:55 Post subject:
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| wellspoken wrote: | | Shut the f**k up. |
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Clevinger
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3765
Location: Austin
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 15:57 Post subject:
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| wellspoken wrote: | | wellspoken wrote: | | Shut the f**k up. |
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 16:31 Post subject:
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I see you have a lot to add. To this topic, or any topic for that matter.
Go brush your tooth.
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Clevinger
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3765
Location: Austin
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 16:33 Post subject:
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The n1gger representative who is supporting Haiti is a dumb b***h and if she was white ,she would have already resigned.
.
That is my contribution to your stupid topic.
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 16:43 Post subject:
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Oh sure...problems in Iraq...every DemocRat wants us to take our troops out of danger.
Problem in Haiti...DemocRats outraged that the US hasn't stablized that nation yet.
Hypocracy is becoming DemocRats.
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 16:44 Post subject:
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You can't have it both ways, either we help countries stablize during times of crisis or we don't. Make up your mind.
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 17:32 Post subject:
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Tornado season is nearly upon you out in Texas, Clev.
Hope your house doesn't fly away. 
Good news is it only costs $10k to begin with.
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 17:37 Post subject:
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| Megalo wrote: | Tornado season is nearly upon you out in Texas, Clev.
Hope your house doesn't fly away.
Good news is it only costs $10k to begin with. |
Can't argue, only insult...true liberal/commie. 
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Buntz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 3340
Location: Banner Elk, N.C.
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 17:40 Post subject:
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| Docter wrote: | Oh sure...problems in Iraq...every DemocRat wants us to take our troops out of danger.
Problem in Haiti...DemocRats outraged that the US hasn't stablized that nation yet.
Hypocracy is becoming DemocRats. |
darn tootin.
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Luturb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 17:57 Post subject: Re: For you people on the Haiti thread..
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| Megalo wrote: | We put this guy in power (gee, how many times have we heard that one before?), we refuse to accept any refugees, and we're awfully damn slow on helping out now aren't we?
Course, now the powers that be have decided the man they put in power (Noriega, Bin Laden, Hussein ring any bells people?!) is no longer desirable. (According to US government officials speaking...when? oh TODAY THAT's RIGHT)
So who's going to suffer? Hatians.
"How exactly did you learn to make you anus speak?" |
So the US put Hussein in power now eh? Who's talking out of their ass again?
In fact we didn't put Artistide in power either. A democratic election did. We did support him at the time, which was very questionable, and sent troops to put down an attempted military coup. Then he rigged the next election and we stopped supporting him. Today the US said recommended that Artistide step down as president. Do you think we should send troops down and overthrow him? Didn't all the liberals criticize Bush for not exhausting all diplomatic options before sending troops to Iraq despite the fact that we waited much much longer and ignored much much worse human rights violations than what is happening in Haiti before taking military action?
What do you think we should do/have done? You keep saying we're slow to "help". Do you support the corrupt dictator or the murdering rebels? We should fly our troops into Haiti and kill who? What exactly is your assertion? Is this article supposed to refute some point that I have made? I think that you are saying that our current reaction to the situation in Haiti is racist. Is this article supposed to support that? Or am I completely missing your point? (this is very possible becuase so far your argument is all over the place).
| Megalo wrote: | | Why do we accept Cuban refugees and not Hatian ones? |
We accept refugees if they can show that they are in imminent danger and require asylum. They go through an interview, and if they can convince the INS that they are in danger they stay, if they are just poor and think they would be better off in the US, they go home. If we accept more Cubans than Hatians it is because Haiti is a democracy (albeit a very poor and somewhat corrupt one) and Cuba is a Communist Dictatorship. According to the associated press, most of the recent Hatian refugees claimed that they were trying to escape poverty in Haiti, not because of recent political unrest. So they go back to Haiti.
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Clevinger
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3765
Location: Austin
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 18:08 Post subject:
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| Megalo wrote: | Tornado season is nearly upon you out in Texas, Clev.
Hope your house doesn't fly away.
Good news is it only costs $10k to begin with. |
You seriously could be the dumbest person I know.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 18:15 Post subject:
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| Clevinger wrote: | | wellspoken wrote: | | wellspoken wrote: | | Shut the f**k up. |
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 18:15 Post subject:
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| Clevinger wrote: | | Megalo wrote: | Tornado season is nearly upon you out in Texas, Clev.
Hope your house doesn't fly away.
Good news is it only costs $10k to begin with. |
You seriously could be the dumbest person I know. |
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 18:26 Post subject:
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Luturb,
Post your references, unless your references are rectally related. You just kinda regurgitate what you've been fed by the press, don't you?
And you obviously didn't read the links, did you? Do you want to learn anything or just keep flappin yer sphincter?
Docter, you make no sense at all. WTF is talking about Rep/Dem here? And how am I going to argue "shut the f**k up" from some redneck? I don't speak hick.
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 18:28 Post subject:
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| Megalo wrote: | Luturb,
Post your references, unless your references are rectally related. You just kinda regurgitate what you've been fed by the press, don't you? |
Dude, you're the one throwing out links from the media...so who's getting fed by the press here???
And as far as myself being a Redneck...far from it, but feel free to keep underestimating me, if it makes you feel good about yourself.
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Wily
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 18:30 Post subject:
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f*k em
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 682
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 18:30 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Do you think we should send troops down and overthrow him? |
I know reading isn't your strong suit, Luturb, but did ya happen to notice that we're sending troops very shortly now?
I'd post the yahoo link, but you won't read it anyway.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease, huh?
You need to start paying me by the hour for this. I don't tutor for free.
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 18:34 Post subject:
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| Megalo wrote: | | Quote: | | Do you think we should send troops down and overthrow him? |
I know reading isn't your strong suit, Luturb, but did ya happen to notice that we're sending troops very shortly now?
I'd post the yahoo link, but you won't read it anyway.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease, huh?
You need to start paying me by the hour for this. I don't tutor for free. |
OMG!!! We sent troops in to safeguard the American embassy...guess that's enough troops to take control of Haiti though...you're right.
As far as the US calling up the marines, so far they are on STANDBY status...to simplify it for you...they haven't begun to assemble them or hand out ammo.
Ass bag.
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NickPSH
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5680
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 18:36 Post subject:
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I believe it's nap time children.
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 18:39 Post subject:
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****very shortly now****
read. for once. please.
And it would be 2200 Marines and 3 ships. Hardly a security force for an embassy, huh brainiac.
And yes, doc, I would classify anyone who isn't up with the social trends, a person who's still living in the 60's (socially), a redneck.
I also use that term for uneducated folks, which oddly enough, almost run hand and hand! Imagine that...
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 18:43 Post subject:
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| Megalo wrote: | | And it would be 2200 Marines and 3 ships. Hardly a security force for an embassy, huh brainiac. |
Did you even read it...or is reading comprehension beyond you...
AND IT WOULD BE...
As in it hasn't happened yet.
/sigh
Go back to school, tell them you failed at life and want another chance to be an adult.
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NickPSH
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5680
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 18:44 Post subject:
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| Tizitchy Tinkergnome wrote: | | I believe it's nap time children. |
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Megalo
Can't Stop Posting
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 18:45 Post subject:
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It has too much national attention now.
It's drawing voter concern, which is all that it takes.
But again, if you already knew how these things worked, I wouldn't have to explain.
Troops will be sent. And you bet your fat ass that I'll be the first person with my finger in your face saying "ha ha!", cause of your last posts.
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 02/27/04 - 19:05 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | I know reading isn't your strong suit, Luturb, but did ya happen to notice that we're sending troops very shortly now? |
And this proves the US is racist how?
You post links to propaganda on some political advocacy site as proof and then accuse me of being influenced by the media? What makes you think I didn't read your articles? I kind of doubt that you read and understood them yourself. Perhaps you could point out what you are talking about.
You still haven't said what you think we should do or shown how the US policy is racist. In fact I haven't heard one coherent statement from you on anything. You call the US racist, make vague references to unrelated issues in different areas of the world, and insult people. If it wasn't for your smug attitude I wouldn't even bother replying to your incomprehensible babbling at all.
As far as references for what I have posted, what were you referring to? The election of Artistide? The attempted military takeover in 1994? Neither of these are difficult to verify, but if you are impressed by links then here you go.
http://www.economist.com/background/displayBackground.cfm?story_id=2463235
http://www.economist.com/world/la/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2463235
And here's the article saying that the refugees are fleeing poverty and not political unrest.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/06/world/main598583.shtml
| Quote: | | Most said they were fleeing the grinding poverty in Haiti, not because of political motivations or fear of being swept up in the 3-week-old uprising, which has claimed at least 80 lives. |
And here is a site detailing the US policy on refugees. Please note that there are special exclusions that make it easier for refugees from Cuba and Haiti to enter the US as refugees.
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/orr/programs/eligib.htm
Enjoy.
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