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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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 Posted: 08/12/04 - 12:36 Post subject:
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repost idiot
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 12:39 Post subject: -==-
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Yeah, there wasn't an explaination the first time it was posted either 
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Fabulez
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 437
Location: up in here
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 12:46 Post subject:
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Selected edits, Sgt Retardo! TM Themy corp.
where are the parts where he explains why he has changed his mind, or what parts of what bill he voted against because he didnt want to vote for a certain aspect of it that had been added or changed? That information is "mysteriously" left out.
demos do the same to repubs on their voting records. whats special about this sampling of selectively edited campaign propaganda? You are dumb enough to believe everything you see, read and hear during a heated election campaign? You silly!
As an aside,
The most amazing co-incidence happened today. Bush admin had denied funds to dredge a major river here earlier in the year, but now that he is coming to town on a campaign stop, suddenly the funds are being made available to dredge the river. God must have said " Georrrrrggggge!!! (he talks big like that) Georggge, let them dredge their riverrrrrr!"
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 12:51 Post subject: -==-
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I thought it explained it pretty clearly, when it showed the democrats that supported the war were marked with a big red X.
As for the river, where is that, and why would something like that be left up to the prez, sounds like a local thing, not a presidential issue, is there an article?
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:03 Post subject:
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its federal funds.
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:08 Post subject: -==-
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Ok, well was it in a bill or something? What's the deal?
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:08 Post subject:
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People change their minds. Haven't you ever changed your mind about a game and stopped playing it? A game that you were so sure was great and a really fun way to pass the time?
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Guest
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:09 Post subject:
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All idiots!
I want you to explain all the lies....
I also want you to stop drinking this.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:12 Post subject:
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haha
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:12 Post subject: -==-
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| Occulis wrote: | | People change their minds. Haven't you ever changed your mind about a game and stopped playing it? A game that you were so sure was great and a really fun way to pass the time? |
I would consider that getting worn out. I can safely say "man, I'm tired of playing Daikatana, I'm ready for something new" as opposed to saying "man, I'm tired of supporting this war, it's getting boring, lemmie just hope this fence here and...."
Chaning your mind once I could see....but back and forth, to whichever is the popular? It's like watching fashion trends.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:19 Post subject:
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How does one measure what is truly a popular opinion? Biased polls? Don't say
unbiased ones - because there is no such thing.
I believe in most of the clips he is cut off before he can explain himself. In fact, in one clip the interviewer tries to pigeon-hole him into a yes/no answer:
"Is it true you oppose the war?"
"I oppose the timing of the war... and I think... "
"So you oppose the war?"
Today, I oppose punching you in the face. You don't deserve it. Tomorrow, if you grab my girlfriend's boob, I will be pro-face punching of you. Am I flip flopping?
Don't get the idea that I'm promoting Kerry. I don't care for either. I just have such hatred for journalists I don't think they could present the truth if they were paid extra for it.
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:26 Post subject: -==-
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| Occulis wrote: | How does one measure what is truly a popular opinion? Biased polls? Don't say
unbiased ones - because there is no such thing.
I believe in most of the clips he is cut off before he can explain himself. In fact, in one clip the interviewer tries to pigeon-hole him into a yes/no answer:
"Is it true you oppose the war?"
"I oppose the timing of the war... and I think... "
"So you oppose the war?"
Today, I oppose punching you in the face. You don't deserve it. Tomorrow, if you grab my girlfriend's boob, I will be pro-face punching of you. Am I flip flopping?
Don't get the idea that I'm promoting Kerry. I don't care for either. I just have such hatred for journalists I don't think they could present the truth if they were paid extra for it. |
First, Kerry did say he was anti-war, it's in one of the last clips of the video, you know after all that "I support the war" footage.
Second, no you are not flip-flopping. Kerry is. His choice was based on what the dems are looking for in a candidate to run for office, which had to be someone who opposed the war. I'm not exactly sure what would be your deciding factor of 'popular', for me it's the little things. More media coverage on protestors, actors leaving the country for (insert reason for hating bush here), articles, interviews, movies, etc.
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:27 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Vengar_OO wrote: | | Occulis wrote: | | People change their minds. Haven't you ever changed your mind about a game and stopped playing it? A game that you were so sure was great and a really fun way to pass the time? |
I would consider that getting worn out. I can safely say "man, I'm tired of playing Daikatana, I'm ready for something new" as opposed to saying "man, I'm tired of supporting this war, it's getting boring, lemmie just hope this fence here and...."
Chaning your mind once I could see....but back and forth, to whichever is the popular? It's like watching fashion trends. |
Its also the work of a manipulative, lying, calculating, phony, liberal scumbag.
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:29 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | How does one measure what is truly a popular opinion? Biased polls? Don't say
unbiased ones - because there is no such thing.
I believe in most of the clips he is cut off before he can explain himself. In fact, in one clip the interviewer tries to pigeon-hole him into a yes/no answer:
"Is it true you oppose the war?"
"I oppose the timing of the war... and I think... "
"So you oppose the war?"
Today, I oppose punching you in the face. You don't deserve it. Tomorrow, if you grab my girlfriend's boob, I will be pro-face punching of you. Am I flip flopping?
Don't get the idea that I'm promoting Kerry. I don't care for either. I just have such hatred for journalists I don't think they could present the truth if they were paid extra for it. |
You ignore the words.
You need to find a new beverage.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:31 Post subject:
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In conclusion, a reason I don't vote is because both parties dig up so much dirt on each other that both candidates look like shit by the time elections roll around.
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Fabulez
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 437
Location: up in here
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:34 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Vengar_OO wrote: | | First, Kerry did say he was anti-war, it's in one of the last clips of the video, you know after all that "I support the war" footage. |
See my response in this thread:
http://www.realpoor.com/viewtopic.php?t=27347&highlight=
Apparently there are those who believe it to be invalid due to its use of "female logic," but it may still be of some use in correcting the misconception that Kerry is anti-war.
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Guest
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:46 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Fabulez wrote: | | Vengar_OO wrote: | | First, Kerry did say he was anti-war, it's in one of the last clips of the video, you know after all that "I support the war" footage. |
See my response in this thread:
http://www.realpoor.com/viewtopic.php?t=27347&highlight=
Apparently there are those who believe it to be invalid due to its use of "female logic," but it may still be of some use in correcting the misconception that Kerry is anti-war. |
LOL
Female logic is the anti-logic.
Can someone shut this bimbo up?
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 13:55 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Fabulez wrote: | | Vengar_OO wrote: | | First, Kerry did say he was anti-war, it's in one of the last clips of the video, you know after all that "I support the war" footage. |
See my response in this thread:
http://www.realpoor.com/viewtopic.php?t=27347&highlight=
Apparently there are those who believe it to be invalid due to its use of "female logic," but it may still be of some use in correcting the misconception that Kerry is anti-war. |
Roger that, one moment.
| Quote: | I don't get it . John Kerry is just as much of a hawk as George W Bush. How people can spin otherwise is a testament to how little politics has to do with reality today.
I guess the point of the video is that he flipflops. That "anti-war candidate" answer sure makes it sound so. But here's the whole question:
Quote:
January 2004: Kerry Says He Is An Anti-War Candidate. MSNBC'S CHRIS MATTHEWS: "Do you think you belong to that category of candidates who more or less are unhappy with this war, the way it's been fought, along with General Clark, along with Howard Dean and not necessarily in companionship politically on the issue of the war with people like Lieberman, Edwards and Gephardt? Are you one of the anti-war candidates?" SEN. JOHN KERRY: "I am -- Yes, in the sense that I don't believe the president took us to war as he should have, yes, absolutely." (MSNBC's "Hardball," 1/6/04)
Matthews describes his own question as "are you someone who is more or less unhappy with the war and the way it's been fought...." and then equates that with being an "anti-war" candidate. To which Kerry responds the way he always has, that we should have gone to war but Bush didn't do it right. That's what he's always said.
The $87 billion is just a total pile of crap. That vote is how legislation is done, and I don't mean that in a "politicians are amoral self-absorbed jellyboned proxies for big-money lobbyists" sense, I mean that legislation is done by compromise...various versions of bills are proposed, voted on, and amended if rejected. Bush threatened to veto the $87 billion if the bill included provisions he didn't like. This is how government works.
The Daily Howler explains this almost every day, for example:
Quote:
Six days after Kerry’s “no” vote, Bush said he would veto the bill if the reconstruction money included loans, as the Senate had voted. Let’s repeat that: Six days after Kerry voted “no”—rejecting a form of the bill he disfavored—Bush said he would veto the bill if it included provisions which he didn’t like!
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I don't suppose you have the rest of that transcript, where Kerry explains how we should have went to war? He wants to really put the pressure on Saddam right? Also seems many of his followers are anti-war, which I believe his is playing off of.
As for the bill, before it gets up to the pres, congress can add all sorts of crap to it, knowing the president wouldn't vote for it, just for that reason. (i.e. suppose they add government funds for abortion or gay marriage to a bill that has nothing to do with it) a common tactic in our politics, I wouldn' blame him if he didn't vote for it either.
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Fabulez
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 437
Location: up in here
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 14:07 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Vengar_OO wrote: | I don't suppose you have the rest of that transcript, where Kerry explains how we should have went to war? He wants to really put the pressure on Saddam right? Also seems many of his followers are anti-war, which I believe his is playing off of.
As for the bill, before it gets up to the pres, congress can add all sorts of crap to it, knowing the president wouldn't vote for it, just for that reason. (i.e. suppose they add government funds for abortion or gay marriage to a bill that has nothing to do with it) a common tactic in our politics, I wouldn' blame him if he didn't vote for it either. |
So you agree with me.
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 14:13 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Fabulez wrote: | | Vengar_OO wrote: | I don't suppose you have the rest of that transcript, where Kerry explains how we should have went to war? He wants to really put the pressure on Saddam right? Also seems many of his followers are anti-war, which I believe his is playing off of.
As for the bill, before it gets up to the pres, congress can add all sorts of crap to it, knowing the president wouldn't vote for it, just for that reason. (i.e. suppose they add government funds for abortion or gay marriage to a bill that has nothing to do with it) a common tactic in our politics, I wouldn' blame him if he didn't vote for it either. |
So you agree with me. |
Not really, no.
Kerry votes for the war, supports it, and so on. Now he's "not against it", just that we went about it the wrong way. So what would have been the right way to go about it? Sounds to me like that part was just a little disclaimer at the end and the fine print reads See, See! I'm not flipflopping! He's against the war. The anti-war crowd love him and for a reason, they think he stands for what they believe in, now where could they have gotten an idea like that.
As for the bill, maybe Kerry shouldn't have said what he said in that interview about how he couldn't see anyway a senator would vote against, where as Bush clearly stated why he would vote against it.
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Fabulez
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 437
Location: up in here
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 14:36 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Vengar_OO wrote: | | Kerry votes for the war, supports it, and so on. Now he's "not against it", just that we went about it the wrong way. So what would have been the right way to go about it? Sounds to me like that part was just a little disclaimer at the end and the fine print reads See, See! I'm not flipflopping! He's against the war. The anti-war crowd love him and for a reason, they think he stands for what they believe in, now where could they have gotten an idea like that. |
I'm not sure you actually know anyone who is anti-war. I live 35 miles from San Francisco, there are more nutso liberals here than probably anywhere in the country, so I have plenty of anti-war people to base this on, and I can say unequivocally that no anti-war people love John Kerry. Because he's a hawk. He constantly pushed for war. He has no plans to end the war. There is a lot of concern that he will reinstate the draft.
I suspect that you are basing your perception on either the invented "anti-war" crowd described by intolerant right-wingers like Kbarr and Confused or on the naive and pointless "anti-war" folks you'll find all over the Internet who are generally either too young or too stupid or too disconnected to really matter. (I hate to generalize.  )
| Quote: | | As for the bill, maybe Kerry shouldn't have said what he said in that interview about how he couldn't see anyway a senator would vote against, where as Bush clearly stated why he would vote against it. |
Yeah, Kerry and his campaign have handled that whole issue with the grace of an epileptic gorilla on PCP. I don't understand why.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 14:41 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Fabulez wrote: | | no anti-war people love John Kerry. |
This is why Bush will win. Nobody is voting for Kerry...they're just voting against Bush. Leftists attempted the same thing in 1984 and lost by a landslide.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 14:48 Post subject:
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Talking about politics really disturbs me. It brings out the worst in people. The most efficient tactics used to sway are those resulting in fears, anger and distrust. And yet we are all supposed to be in the same country, on the same planet? Humans are too afraid and too confrontational.
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 14:59 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | | Talking about politics really disturbs me. It brings out the worst in people. The most efficient tactics used to sway are those resulting in fears, anger and distrust. And yet we are all supposed to be in the same country, on the same planet? Humans are too afraid and too confrontational. |
Humans are animals.
Some people have a hard time understanding this.
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Guest
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 15:03 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Fabulez wrote: | | intolerant right-wingers like Kbarr and Confused |
Sweetie,
We are just the most vocal ones, there are MANY more lurkers:)
And what you call "intolerant", we call being smart.
You bimbo.
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 15:14 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | | Talking about politics really disturbs me. It brings out the worst in people. The most efficient tactics used to sway are those resulting in fears, anger and distrust. And yet we are all supposed to be in the same country, on the same planet? Humans are too afraid and too confrontational. |
I propose we just have a monarchy and save ourselves billions of dollars by eliminating congress.
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 15:20 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Fabulez wrote: | | Vengar_OO wrote: | | Kerry votes for the war, supports it, and so on. Now he's "not against it", just that we went about it the wrong way. So what would have been the right way to go about it? Sounds to me like that part was just a little disclaimer at the end and the fine print reads See, See! I'm not flipflopping! He's against the war. The anti-war crowd love him and for a reason, they think he stands for what they believe in, now where could they have gotten an idea like that. |
I'm not sure you actually know anyone who is anti-war. I live 35 miles from San Francisco, there are more nutso liberals here than probably anywhere in the country, so I have plenty of anti-war people to base this on, and I can say unequivocally that no anti-war people love John Kerry. Because he's a hawk. He constantly pushed for war. He has no plans to end the war. There is a lot of concern that he will reinstate the draft.
I suspect that you are basing your perception on either the invented "anti-war" crowd described by intolerant right-wingers like Kbarr and Confused or on the naive and pointless "anti-war" folks you'll find all over the Internet who are generally either too young or too stupid or too disconnected to really matter. (I hate to generalize. )
| Quote: | | As for the bill, maybe Kerry shouldn't have said what he said in that interview about how he couldn't see anyway a senator would vote against, where as Bush clearly stated why he would vote against it. |
Yeah, Kerry and his campaign have handled that whole issue with the grace of an epileptic gorilla on PCP. I don't understand why. |
I dont' have to know liberal hippies to know anti-war people. I know anti-war people in the military, that are indeed voting for Kerry. I'm not saying they love him, the general feeling is basically, "well , it's not Bush". And yes, it is the same on the interent, which unfortunatly you have to take at face value, there' s no real way to ever tell who you are talking to. As for Kbarr and Confused, we share most views, but not all. I don't always agree on the way they handle their arguements, but there are people on both sides that do that, like Jack Crow. I'm not sure any two people in the world can completely agree on every political topic as it is.
But hey, look on the bright side, we managed to have a little debate without namecalling or mudslinging, that's worth something eh?
I can say one
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Fabulez
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 437
Location: up in here
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 15:27 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Vengar_OO wrote: | | The anti-war crowd love him and for a reason, they think he stands for what they believe in, now where could they have gotten an idea like that. |
| Vengar_OO wrote: | I'm not saying they love him, the general feeling is basically, "well , it's not Bush".
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Er, ok. A lot of anti-war folks out here feel the same way about the not-Bush thing. You hear things like "I'd vote for a steaming turd on the sidewalk before I'd vote for George W. Bush."
| Vengar_OO wrote: |
But hey, look on the bright side, we managed to have a little debate without namecalling or mudslinging, that's worth something eh?
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Is that ALLOWED?
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