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Zwadrich
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 08:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, when i go to the US, whats the best place to visit? culturally?

NY? Cali?
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WheresNWS
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 10:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always recognized Europe as a whole to be a diverse set of cultures. However, it is now the European Union. You all are sacrificing you cultural sovereignty for economic power. Taken as a whole, the EU is an economic powerhouse on par with the United States. The EU was intended to pool European power against the United States (though your military power needs to grow by over 300%). Unfortunately, your collective choice to join the EU was very shortsighted. You've sacrificed your currency, economic policy-making ability, and with the new constitution most of your laws. These are powerful elements of what defines a culture and, for the sake of money, you have relinquished it. I am now comfortable referring to "Europe" rather than individual nations.
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 10:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frax wrote:
Everyone has pride in their country's achievements. I don't think i've ever used it in an argument with you on this board ever unless you brought it up first like this one! It's usually to rub it in the noses of the idiot USA bashers like ballsack (scrotum) telling us how great Norway is, except we actually did something worth a shit! Razz Besides I loved visiting Holland, was my favorite place in Europe, followed closely by Germany.


If you look back and read through the "Norway at the top of the list "again"" topic, you will see how things developed. Many people from this board could not handle it, and started trashing the U.N, then Europe, then Norway. Mostly 2 people and you know who that is. I then found(and not before) negative points about America and posted it, just like your ol' American buds did with me. so you have them to thank for the "bashing".
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 10:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kbarr wrote:
Celestra wrote:


And the first person who says that "if we hadn't come rescued you guys in WW-whatever you would have been speaking German and have German culture whine whine blah blah" needs to get slapped in the face with at least 10 dozen dead stinking horses. I curse you in advance and hope you and all your offspring die in a f*****g fire.


You know, after giving it a little thought. You might have ended up speaking japanese.

The germans might have cut europe up a little, and gave the japs Holland.

You never never can tell, them germans were so crafty. Shit, look at all the great meats they cook.

But that takes us right back to the main thing, the most important thing.

The Mighty US of A, saved europe's collective ass!!!!!!



This is one of the retards that cant see the word "Europe" and leave the word "U.S + saved" out of it.
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 10:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Celestra wrote:
"European culture" does not exist you fools.

Europe is a unit that exists geographically and economically and maybe in a smaller way, politically.

But culturally? no.

It's comprised of lots of smaller countries who all have different cultures and different customs and different holidays. I would say there is much more diversity between countries in Europe than between various states in the US.

"Europe" doesn't have any 'national' holidays for the sheer fact (DUH!) that it isn't a 'nation' (DUH again). Anyone pointing that out as a sign that we (as in Europeans) don't have any sort of culture is a farking idiot.

No, Europeans don't have one single culture, but the Dutch do, the French do, the Germans do, the Italians do and so on.

And the first person who says that "if we hadn't come rescued you guys in WW-whatever you would have been speaking German and have German culture whine whine blah blah" needs to get slapped in the face with at least 10 dozen dead stinking horses. I curse you in advance and hope you and all your offspring die in a f*****g fire.


You go girl !
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 10:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheresNWS wrote:
I've always recognized Europe as a whole to be a diverse set of cultures. However, it is now the European Union. You all are sacrificing you cultural sovereignty for economic power.


You really need to stfu and study some more you f*****g moron.


Quote:
Taken as a whole, the EU is an economic powerhouse on par with the United States. The EU was intended to pool European power against the United States (though your military power needs to grow by over 300%).


There he goes again, the military bragging. you really cant f*****g control yourself can you?

Quote:
Unfortunately, your collective choice to join the EU was very shortsighted. You've sacrificed your currency, economic policy-making ability, and with the new constitution most of your laws.


"Most of our laws" ????????????WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??!?!?!?!

The countries in EU have maybe changed a "few" of their export laws combined. This is something that is positive for everyone. Another thing most countries changed was to travel without a passport between countries, which also is a good thing. get your head out of your f*****g ass, there isnt anything that has changed to reduce a countries' culture you reject.
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WheresNWS
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 10:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

scrotum wrote:
WheresNWS wrote:
I've always recognized Europe as a whole to be a diverse set of cultures. However, it is now the European Union. You all are sacrificing you cultural sovereignty for economic power.


You really need to stfu and study some more you f*****g moron.


Quote:
Taken as a whole, the EU is an economic powerhouse on par with the United States. The EU was intended to pool European power against the United States (though your military power needs to grow by over 300%).


There he goes again, the military bragging. you really cant f*****g control yourself can you?

Quote:
Unfortunately, your collective choice to join the EU was very shortsighted. You've sacrificed your currency, economic policy-making ability, and with the new constitution most of your laws.


"Most of our laws" ????????????WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??!?!?!?!

The countries in EU have maybe changed a "few" of their export laws combined. This is something that is positive for everyone. Another thing most countries changed was to travel without a passport between countries, which also is a good thing. get your head out of your f*****g ass, there isnt anything that has changed to reduce a countries' culture you reject.

lol. Ignorant of your own countries politics. How sad. You can travel between countries with one passport. You know what that means? It's becoming one country! One of the single most important things a federal government does is determine economic policy and you have all bowed down to a superior governing body. If you think you haven't all sacrificed your laws, try reading your new constitution! So tell me ye of sovereignty. What has your money looked like, lately?

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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 10:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheresNWS wrote:
However, it is now the European Union. You all are sacrificing you cultural sovereignty for economic power.


Uh, no.

Culture =! Economy

Nothing has changed for the average Joe, cept the color of the paper in his wallet.
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WheresNWS
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 10:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Celestra wrote:
WheresNWS wrote:
However, it is now the European Union. You all are sacrificing you cultural sovereignty for economic power.


Uh, no.

Culture =! Economy

Nothing has changed for the average Joe, cept the color of the paper in his wallet.

I didn't say culture = economy. I said you're sacfrificing indivdual cultures for your economy. You've already sacrified currency (an element of culture, as money usually represents national history) and economic policy. Germany tried to use EU law to prevent an Italian company from making "Hitler Wine". You have a constitution in the works that will supercede your own national governments as well, which put a socialist government over all of your own. Your wealthier "nations" will soon be supporting your "poorer" nations, so cultural exports from rich to poor will increanse, resulting in a drowning out of subcultures.

The US is a large nation, but as you go from state to state, you find more similarities than differences. That's the result of a strong federal government. Europe will soon be the same. Your kids won't refer to Germany, France and Italy as countries, but as "states".
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 10:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Celestra wrote:
WheresNWS wrote:
However, it is now the European Union. You all are sacrificing you cultural sovereignty for economic power.


Uh, no.

Culture =! Economy

Nothing has changed for the average Joe, cept the color of the paper in his wallet.


exactly.

and NWS, study more, Norway isnt in EU. Travelling between countries more freely is f*****g nice man, nothing negative about it.
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WheresNWS
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 10:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

scrotum wrote:
Celestra wrote:
WheresNWS wrote:
However, it is now the European Union. You all are sacrificing you cultural sovereignty for economic power.


Uh, no.

Culture =! Economy

Nothing has changed for the average Joe, cept the color of the paper in his wallet.


exactly.

and NWS, study more, Norway isnt in EU. Travelling between countries more freely is f*****g nice man, nothing negative about it.

Norway is still considering. They just haven't signed on the dotted line yet. Give it time. Soon you will be part of a socialist body that isn't kept afloat by oil. I'm sure you'll enjoy exporting money! Smile
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 11:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheresNWS wrote:
lol. Ignorant of your own countries politics. How sad. You can travel between countries with one passport. You know what that means? It's becoming one country! One of the single most important things a federal government does is determine economic policy and you have all bowed down to a superior governing body. If you think you haven't all sacrificed your laws, try reading your new constitution! So tell me ye of sovereignty. What has your money looked like, lately?
We could always travel between other countries with 1 passport, except Poland for awhile. I'm still "Belgian" although I can no longer carry that passport, I get a European Passport. With that passport I can work and live *anywhere* in Europe.

Sweden, GB and Norway refused to take the Euro as their currency because they have a strong economy of their own. SP is a world currency, and will be for quite a while.

Federal laws for economic policy will be set, and they hope to reach that in 2004 - 2008. This to make it more balanced and stronger. I don't see why you would get "sovereignty" in it. I believe your strongest econimic state is California, and doesn't that balance out the rest of the states also?
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 11:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostkiss wrote:
WheresNWS wrote:
lol. Ignorant of your own countries politics. How sad. You can travel between countries with one passport. You know what that means? It's becoming one country! One of the single most important things a federal government does is determine economic policy and you have all bowed down to a superior governing body. If you think you haven't all sacrificed your laws, try reading your new constitution! So tell me ye of sovereignty. What has your money looked like, lately?
We could always travel between other countries with 1 passport, except Poland for awhile. I'm still "Belgian" although I can no longer carry that passport, I get a European Passport. With that passport I can work and live *anywhere* in Europe.

Sweden, GB and Norway refused to take the Euro as their currency because they have a strong economy of their own. SP is a world currency, and will be for quite a while.

Federal laws for economic policy will be set, and they hope to reach that in 2004 - 2008. This to make it more balanced and stronger. I don't see why you would get "sovereignty" in it. I believe your strongest econimic state is California, and doesn't that balance out the rest of the states also?

Because the US is largely a single culture. Europe will soon be unified culturally as well. You aren't only giving up your national rights to develop economic policy, either. Read your new master's constitution.
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 11:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheresNWS wrote:
Frostkiss wrote:
WheresNWS wrote:
lol. Ignorant of your own countries politics. How sad. You can travel between countries with one passport. You know what that means? It's becoming one country! One of the single most important things a federal government does is determine economic policy and you have all bowed down to a superior governing body. If you think you haven't all sacrificed your laws, try reading your new constitution! So tell me ye of sovereignty. What has your money looked like, lately?
We could always travel between other countries with 1 passport, except Poland for awhile. I'm still "Belgian" although I can no longer carry that passport, I get a European Passport. With that passport I can work and live *anywhere* in Europe.

Sweden, GB and Norway refused to take the Euro as their currency because they have a strong economy of their own. SP is a world currency, and will be for quite a while.

Federal laws for economic policy will be set, and they hope to reach that in 2004 - 2008. This to make it more balanced and stronger. I don't see why you would get "sovereignty" in it. I believe your strongest econimic state is California, and doesn't that balance out the rest of the states also?

Because the US is largely a single culture. Europe will soon be unified culturally as well. You aren't only giving up your national rights to develop economic policy, either. Read your new master's constitution.
How would that impact the differences in culture? The US is a single culture by language to begin with.
What you say is "the changed their currency, they changed some federal ecomic policies, so soon they'll be the same". All trough history Europe has been overrun by different people, it was often one, then crumbled again into small "countries", divided by sons, war etc. Cultures still excist, they're still there, how is the same currency going to change that?
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 11:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zwadrich wrote:
So, when i go to the US, whats the best place to visit? culturally?

NY? Cali?


Both are good choices, lots of art and history in both places... NY would probably have a big edge on california, mainly because it's been heavily populated much longer.

Washington DC has one of the best museums in the world ( http://www.si.edu/ ). Places like Seattle, Atlanta, Dallas, Las Vegas, Miami all have a unique style all their own...

If you want to see american history type stuff, you can visit any number of ghost towns in the West, visit the Grand Canyon, mining sites in california, there is an endless amount of things to do and see in the USA.
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 11:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostkiss wrote:
WheresNWS wrote:
Frostkiss wrote:
WheresNWS wrote:
lol. Ignorant of your own countries politics. How sad. You can travel between countries with one passport. You know what that means? It's becoming one country! One of the single most important things a federal government does is determine economic policy and you have all bowed down to a superior governing body. If you think you haven't all sacrificed your laws, try reading your new constitution! So tell me ye of sovereignty. What has your money looked like, lately?
We could always travel between other countries with 1 passport, except Poland for awhile. I'm still "Belgian" although I can no longer carry that passport, I get a European Passport. With that passport I can work and live *anywhere* in Europe.

Sweden, GB and Norway refused to take the Euro as their currency because they have a strong economy of their own. SP is a world currency, and will be for quite a while.

Federal laws for economic policy will be set, and they hope to reach that in 2004 - 2008. This to make it more balanced and stronger. I don't see why you would get "sovereignty" in it. I believe your strongest econimic state is California, and doesn't that balance out the rest of the states also?

Because the US is largely a single culture. Europe will soon be unified culturally as well. You aren't only giving up your national rights to develop economic policy, either. Read your new master's constitution.
How would that impact the differences in culture? The US is a single culture by language to begin with.
What you say is "the changed their currency, they changed some federal ecomic policies, so soon they'll be the same". All trough history Europe has been overrun by different people, it was often one, then crumbled again into small "countries", divided by sons, war etc. Cultures still excist, they're still there, how is the same currency going to change that?


US culture is not bound by a single languague, something around 30% of the US is native spanish speakers.
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 11:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostkiss wrote:
WheresNWS wrote:
Frostkiss wrote:
WheresNWS wrote:
lol. Ignorant of your own countries politics. How sad. You can travel between countries with one passport. You know what that means? It's becoming one country! One of the single most important things a federal government does is determine economic policy and you have all bowed down to a superior governing body. If you think you haven't all sacrificed your laws, try reading your new constitution! So tell me ye of sovereignty. What has your money looked like, lately?
We could always travel between other countries with 1 passport, except Poland for awhile. I'm still "Belgian" although I can no longer carry that passport, I get a European Passport. With that passport I can work and live *anywhere* in Europe.

Sweden, GB and Norway refused to take the Euro as their currency because they have a strong economy of their own. SP is a world currency, and will be for quite a while.

Federal laws for economic policy will be set, and they hope to reach that in 2004 - 2008. This to make it more balanced and stronger. I don't see why you would get "sovereignty" in it. I believe your strongest econimic state is California, and doesn't that balance out the rest of the states also?

Because the US is largely a single culture. Europe will soon be unified culturally as well. You aren't only giving up your national rights to develop economic policy, either. Read your new master's constitution.
How would that impact the differences in culture? The US is a single culture by language to begin with.
What you say is "the changed their currency, they changed some federal ecomic policies, so soon they'll be the same". All trough history Europe has been overrun by different people, it was often one, then crumbled again into small "countries", divided by sons, war etc. Cultures still excist, they're still there, how is the same currency going to change that?

Because when a society cedes rule to another, their culture is absorbed. Currency is a key element of culture and that was the first thing to go. When your constitution goes into effect, you cede all national rule to a central government which will control your schools, laws, financial systems, etc... Your children won't be given books called "The History of Belgium". They will be given "The History of Europe." Read your constitution. You're giving up all of your power and, soon, culture.
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 11:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite. "Federal Europe" will bring all scholar systems to one, bring in more languages, and right now the debate is "socrates". I don't see this as shocking, since it will be a more "international degree" that way. When ppl decide to move to Canada then, that way their degree will atleast be recognized. Right now it seems they think we swang here from a tree.

They won't change "history" and they won't change the actual package they always had. They simply add what they think is necessary.

Our constitution is a joke to begin with, we still use Napoleons, there's is no direct power we give up. Education will be revised on a Federal level, but will still be a "national" decission. There is just going to be Federal guidance in many different parts. Education, employement, social security, maternity leave, it will all become "one" system, but they still pay employees what they feel like, will keep their own social security, teach children our glorious history =p
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 12:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frax wrote:
US culture is not bound by a single languague, something around 30% of the US is native spanish speakers.
You have 1 official language tho. I'm sure that atleast 15% of the pupulation in Belgium isn't native Dutch either
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 12:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostkiss wrote:
Frax wrote:
US culture is not bound by a single languague, something around 30% of the US is native spanish speakers.
You have 1 official language tho. I'm sure that atleast 15% of the pupulation in Belgium isn't native Dutch either

Uh...the US has NO official language.
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 12:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostkiss wrote:
Not quite. "Federal Europe" will bring all scholar systems to one, bring in more languages, and right now the debate is "socrates". I don't see this as shocking, since it will be a more "international degree" that way. When ppl decide to move to Canada then, that way their degree will atleast be recognized. Right now it seems they think we swang here from a tree.

They won't change "history" and they won't change the actual package they always had. They simply add what they think is necessary.

Our constitution is a joke to begin with, we still use Napoleons, there's is no direct power we give up. Education will be revised on a Federal level, but will still be a "national" decission. There is just going to be Federal guidance in many different parts. Education, employement, social security, maternity leave, it will all become "one" system, but they still pay employees what they feel like, will keep their own social security, teach children our glorious history =p

lol...naive little girl. You've sacrificed sovereignty for money. You have no idea what that means, do you? Or perhaps national soverignty mean nothing to a little nation like Belgium. Oh well!
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 12:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't the Pope like...the EU's daddy?
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 12:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheresNWS wrote:
Frostkiss wrote:
Frax wrote:
US culture is not bound by a single languague, something around 30% of the US is native spanish speakers.
You have 1 official language tho. I'm sure that atleast 15% of the pupulation in Belgium isn't native Dutch either

Uh...the US has NO official language.
My atlas says it's English =/
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 12:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostkiss wrote:
Frax wrote:
US culture is not bound by a single languague, something around 30% of the US is native spanish speakers.
You have 1 official language tho. I'm sure that atleast 15% of the pupulation in Belgium isn't native Dutch either


The US has no official language.
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 12:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostkiss wrote:
WheresNWS wrote:
Frostkiss wrote:
Frax wrote:
US culture is not bound by a single languague, something around 30% of the US is native spanish speakers.
You have 1 official language tho. I'm sure that atleast 15% of the pupulation in Belgium isn't native Dutch either

Uh...the US has NO official language.
My atlas says it's English =/

Your Atlas is wrong. There is no official language in the US. This and many more nationalist inaccuracies in your education system to come!
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 12:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheresNWS wrote:
lol...naive little girl. You've sacrificed sovereignty for money. You have no idea what that means, do you? Or perhaps national soverignty mean nothing to a little nation like Belgium. Oh well!

Right now, Belgium is a monarchy. Couple years ago, Belgium voted the abortion law. We held a referendum, and the general idea was pro, with a small majority. Our king, unable to have children, was *very* contra.
Now, our "Federal" organ decided the king were not to be king for a day (he used his "veto" rights) and they voted the law. Next day we had a king again, and abortion was legal. Now where does the power lay? The EU doesn't mean there will be no more national power, I see it more like a federal organ covering the national power, to unite and make it one, just to achieve a more balanced Europe. Call me naive =/
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 12:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheresNWS wrote:
Frostkiss wrote:
WheresNWS wrote:
Frostkiss wrote:
Frax wrote:
US culture is not bound by a single languague, something around 30% of the US is native spanish speakers.
You have 1 official language tho. I'm sure that atleast 15% of the pupulation in Belgium isn't native Dutch either

Uh...the US has NO official language.
My atlas says it's English =/

Your Atlas is wrong. There is no official language in the US. This and many more nationalist inaccuracies in your education system to come!
You're right, my atlas, aswell as wordatlas.com gives you English as the official language. 27 states have English as their official language tho
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 12:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frostkiss wrote:
WheresNWS wrote:
lol...naive little girl. You've sacrificed sovereignty for money. You have no idea what that means, do you? Or perhaps national soverignty mean nothing to a little nation like Belgium. Oh well!

Right now, Belgium is a monarchy. Couple years ago, Belgium voted the abortion law. We held a referendum, and the general idea was pro, with a small majority. Our king, unable to have children, was *very* contra.
Now, our "Federal" organ decided the king were not to be king for a day (he used his "veto" rights) and they voted the law. Next day we had a king again, and abortion was legal. Now where does the power lay? The EU doesn't mean there will be no more national power, I see it more like a federal organ covering the national power, to unite and make it one, just to achieve a more balanced Europe. Call me naive =/

You are naive. You will soon be like Scotland with your own masters. You constitution allows for a federal EU president and federal government a federal military and federally mandated economic policy. There are plenty of laws in there that will apply to the freedom of speech, abortion law, etc. When your new masters make a law, you will have to follow. The funniest part is the socialist language in your master's constitution. It imples a strong tyrranous federal government. If your country wants to leave the EU, it's allowed to...only the EU gets to determine the severity of the penalty.
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 13:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheresNWS wrote:
You are naive. You will soon be like Scotland with your own masters. You constitution allows for a federal EU president and federal government a federal military and federally mandated economic policy. There are plenty of laws in there that will apply to the freedom of speech, abortion law, etc. When your new masters make a law, you will have to follow. The funniest part is the socialist language in your master's constitution. It imples a strong tyrranous federal government. If your country wants to leave the EU, it's allowed to...only the EU gets to determine the severity of the penalty.
When *our masters* now (elected) make a law, we follow. Doesnt the states have different laws too from state to state...
There will always be national and federal laws, we are not entering a dictatorship or selling out here =/
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PostPosted: 11/24/03 - 13:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

NWS, you really need to get a f*****g grip. You are getting worse every day. You have NO f*****g clue what the EU is all about. The way you make it sound, its like the Colluseum in Rome is gonna get burned down or some shit. And if you check out how the f*****g EU system works before coming here, each country has an amount of "votes" for every f*****g new thing that is tried at being "passed". Its not like one country is sitting there deciding everything/anything, you stupid c**t.

And where the hell do you get the "once you lose your currency, its the end" attitude? you are a big joke. you have nothing to support this, just stupid shit coming out of a pos. There isn't one negative thing about having one "big" currency in Europe, not one. After all, its a step closer to what the world wants. I think you look at the EU thing as more of a threat. Hence you acting like its the end of Europe. The Euro is a competitor for the dollar. so you automatically diss it.

And freedom of speech? you crack me the f**k up you stupidass. Hell, we are more free in our speech than the U.S is already, and its not about to change.

Concentrate on getting your "States" "United" then you can come tell us the recipe. Your "States" are about as Un-United as you can get. Wtf were you guys thinking when everyone made their own laws for this and that? thats not being united at all. wtf?? Example? oh, ok:


One state you can drink alcohol at 18, one 21. then you have "some" cities that are "dry" where you have to drive way the f**k out of town to get a drink. f**k that.

Another ? oki

Taxes. Sales tax, property tax, insurance, all that shit. Its all DIFFERENT from state to state. WHY???? WHY NWS?? Why not run a country like a country ?




Fix your shit first, then whine and b***h about Europe you sad f**k.
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