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Leilu
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 1164
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 Posted: 10/11/04 - 13:15 Post subject: Electoral Votes (Not a political thread)
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So why do we have electoral votes? Doesn't popular vote make more sense? Anyone anyone?
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khrath
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8750
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 13:16 Post subject:
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ROCK TEH VOTE!@!
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Spitulski
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 4344
Location: Washington
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 13:23 Post subject:
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DUDE, GET OFF YOUR ASS AND TURN OFF THE TV AND VOTE, MAN! IT'S SO COOL TO DO IT NOW, IT'S NOT JUST FOR OLD PEOPLE AND STUFF.
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quotison
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 1594
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 13:31 Post subject:
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The framers of the constitution did not want the president elected directly by the people. I think it made sense back then, when it would be unlikely that an average person knew a lot about national candidates for president, due to the slow movement of information.
These days, I don't think it makes any sense. The 'winner take all' mechanism that all but two states (Maine and New Hampshire) use seems to make voters in a lot of states a non-factor. Also the electoral college system gives more weight to votes in small states, since electoral votes are not proportional to population, but rather based on the number of Congress seats (which means every state gets at least three, due to each state having at least two senate seats and one house seat no matter population)
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4043
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 13:52 Post subject:
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I agree somewhat. I think they should drop the all or nothing by state part of the electoral college, and let them be divided up. I think Colorado is actually doing that this year.
I don't think going to a pure popular vote would be a good idea though. The electoral college is just as valid as it was in it's first days. If it were a popular vote then the candidates could just say s***w 80% of the country and suck up to people in LA, SF, NY, and Boston and win.
Check out the Bush vs. Gore votes by county:
All that red, yet gore won the popular vote. Without the electoral college, a tiny fraction of the country (the big cities) totally dominates the election. They still do really, but not by as much as they would without the electoral college.
More states should split up their electoral votes by population though, so conservative areas like central CA or liberal areas like South Texas could be counted instead of those states always going 100% republican or democrat.
Last edited by Luturb on 10/11/04 - 13:55; edited 1 time in total
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Dyers
Sir Postalot
Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 1269
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 13:55 Post subject:
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| Luturb wrote: | I agree somewhat. I think they should drop the all or nothing by state part of the electoral college, and let them be divided up. I think Colorado is actually doing that this year.
I don't think going to a pure popular vote would be a good idea though. If that were the case then the candidates could just say s***w 80% of the country and suck up to people in LA, SF, NY, and Boston and win.
Check out the Bush vs. Gore votes by county:
All that red, yet gore won the popular vote. Without the electoral college, a tiny fraction of the country (the big cities) totally dominates the election. They still do really, but not by as much as they would without the electoral college. |
Colorado is voting on changing the electoral votes into more percentage based. If you get 50% ofthe vote you get 50% of the electoral votes, etc.
I'll see if i can find the info.. as with anything there is vocal opposition to it from whoever's panties it caused to wad up. I think mainly because the guy who suggested it , is really a california transplant to Colorado.. (like 50% of the populatoin is)
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4043
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 13:58 Post subject:
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Hehe, and no matter what state you're in, at least in the west, everybody blames California imports for screwing everything up.
Last edited by Luturb on 10/11/04 - 13:59; edited 1 time in total
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Buckshot
Luke Warm
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 449
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 13:59 Post subject: Re: Electoral Votes (Not a political thread)
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| Leilu wrote: | | So why do we have electoral votes? Doesn't popular vote make more sense? Anyone anyone? |
we need constitutional changes to the election process and for the staffing of our defense and security agencies, ect.
the age of information has changed everything and the old systems have falling into the 'dark ages'
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 13:59 Post subject:
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There are a total of 633 people in that entire red mess.
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Buckshot
Luke Warm
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 449
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 14:10 Post subject:
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| Silvermouse wrote: | | There are a total of 633 people in that entire red mess. |
all of which are cousins, and they are still inter-breeding
"Hey Paw! can me and cuzin luUrleen Geet hitch'd when she turns 12? "
"sure thing boy! just like ye'r maw & I deed"
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 14:18 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | Luturb wrote: | I agree somewhat. I think they should drop the all or nothing by state part of the electoral college, and let them be divided up. I think Colorado is actually doing that this year.
I don't think going to a pure popular vote would be a good idea though. If that were the case then the candidates could just say s***w 80% of the country and suck up to people in LA, SF, NY, and Boston and win.
Check out the Bush vs. Gore votes by county:
All that red, yet gore won the popular vote. Without the electoral college, a tiny fraction of the country (the big cities) totally dominates the election. They still do really, but not by as much as they would without the electoral college. |
Colorado is voting on changing the electoral votes into more percentage based. If you get 50% ofthe vote you get 50% of the electoral votes, etc.
I'll see if i can find the info.. as with anything there is vocal opposition to it from whoever's panties it caused to wad up. I think mainly because the guy who suggested it , is really a california transplant to Colorado.. (like 50% of the populatoin is) |
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/election/article/0,1299,DRMN_36_3200813,00.html
This was one relatively unbiased article on it. To be honest it is not much on the news in Colorado. We instead get to listen to Pete Coors (yes the guy from the beer commercials) and Ken Salazar rip each other to shreds in advertisements and debates. Its kinda like a mini presidential election.. GWB is even flying in today to wave the colors for Coors.
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4043
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 14:23 Post subject:
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You gotta support a guy that makes beer, even if it's watered down weak yellow beer. Or is he a watered-down weak yellow candidate too?
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lotek
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1598
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 14:28 Post subject:
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If it was a popular vote, then la, new york, houston and pheonix would decided for everyone else.
consider it affirmitive action for the smaller states.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 14:29 Post subject:
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They are both fairly annoying. I haven't made up my mind but salazar has reportedly taken money from an anti-defense organisation. That will be enough for me to vote the other way most likely.
I always wondered where people access all this campaign contribution info.
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atarom
Dalai Lama of RealPoor
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 16398
Location: 375th st. Y
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 14:35 Post subject:
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| lotek wrote: | If it was a popular vote, then la, new york, houston and pheonix would decided for everyone else.
consider it affirmitive action for the smaller states. |
I think that is the most flawed argument I've ever heard.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 14:42 Post subject:
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| fagarom wrote: | | lotek wrote: | If it was a popular vote, then la, new york, houston and pheonix would decided for everyone else.
consider it affirmitive action for the smaller states. |
I think that is the most flawed argument I've ever heard. |
no shit. everyone forgets chicago.
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Leilu
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 1164
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 14:51 Post subject:
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It seems like your vote would actually directly count if it was popular. So I live in Missouri, which is by definition a "swing" state. Luckily this year, we've had alot of attention from the press and both candidates. My state has 2 somewhat large cities on both east and west borders surrounding a whole bunch of white-trash and back woods cousin lovers in the middle. Unfortunately, the cousin loving white trash picks which way my state goes every 4 years because they can reproduce faster than they can put on a condom.
Of course I want to contribute to the idea of democracy as much as possible, and in doing so see the importance of voting, but I can't help but think that my vote doesn't count when as soon as I've cast it, some cousin lover in Troy has already cancelled out my ballot.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 14:58 Post subject:
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| Leilu wrote: | It seems like your vote would actually directly count if it was popular. So I live in Missouri, which is by definition a "swing" state. Luckily this year, we've had alot of attention from the press and both candidates. My state has 2 somewhat large cities on both east and west borders surrounding a whole bunch of white-trash and back woods cousin lovers in the middle. Unfortunately, the cousin loving white trash picks which way my state goes every 4 years because they can reproduce faster than they can put on a condom.
Of course I want to contribute to the idea of democracy as much as possible, and in doing so see the importance of voting, but I can't help but think that my vote doesn't count when as soon as I've cast it, some cousin lover in Troy has already cancelled out my ballot. |
My uncle lives in Missouri. One of the smartest people I know (along with his brother). Excellent lawyer. Very witty, humorous. A diehard Bush/Republican supporter.
I wonder if he would change his party affiliation if I reminded him that all the uneducated white trash idiots love Bush. Why he would put himself in with them is... strange.
It's just ironic that both the most ignorant and most wealthy segments of society in this country tend to gravitate towards the same end of the political spectrum.
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 15:02 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | They are both fairly annoying. I haven't made up my mind but salazar has reportedly taken money from an anti-defense organisation. That will be enough for me to vote the other way most likely.
I always wondered where people access all this campaign contribution info. |
Coor makes really s****y beer - that would be enough for me to vote for the other guy
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 15:04 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | | Leilu wrote: | It seems like your vote would actually directly count if it was popular. So I live in Missouri, which is by definition a "swing" state. Luckily this year, we've had alot of attention from the press and both candidates. My state has 2 somewhat large cities on both east and west borders surrounding a whole bunch of white-trash and back woods cousin lovers in the middle. Unfortunately, the cousin loving white trash picks which way my state goes every 4 years because they can reproduce faster than they can put on a condom.
Of course I want to contribute to the idea of democracy as much as possible, and in doing so see the importance of voting, but I can't help but think that my vote doesn't count when as soon as I've cast it, some cousin lover in Troy has already cancelled out my ballot. |
My uncle lives in Missouri. One of the smartest people I know (along with his brother). Excellent lawyer. Very witty, humorous. A diehard Bush/Republican supporter.
I wonder if he would change his party affiliation if I reminded him that all the uneducated white trash idiots love Bush. Why he would put himself in with them is... strange.
It's just ironic that both the most ignorant and most wealthy segments of society in this country tend to gravitate towards the same end of the political spectrum. |
way to generalize, stupid ass.
There are rich people for bush. There are rich people for kerry.
There are poor people for bush. There are poor people for kerry.
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Rennol
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3741
Location: Charleston, IL
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 15:17 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | Rennol wrote: | | Leilu wrote: | It seems like your vote would actually directly count if it was popular. So I live in Missouri, which is by definition a "swing" state. Luckily this year, we've had alot of attention from the press and both candidates. My state has 2 somewhat large cities on both east and west borders surrounding a whole bunch of white-trash and back woods cousin lovers in the middle. Unfortunately, the cousin loving white trash picks which way my state goes every 4 years because they can reproduce faster than they can put on a condom.
Of course I want to contribute to the idea of democracy as much as possible, and in doing so see the importance of voting, but I can't help but think that my vote doesn't count when as soon as I've cast it, some cousin lover in Troy has already cancelled out my ballot. |
My uncle lives in Missouri. One of the smartest people I know (along with his brother). Excellent lawyer. Very witty, humorous. A diehard Bush/Republican supporter.
I wonder if he would change his party affiliation if I reminded him that all the uneducated white trash idiots love Bush. Why he would put himself in with them is... strange.
It's just ironic that both the most ignorant and most wealthy segments of society in this country tend to gravitate towards the same end of the political spectrum. |
way to generalize, stupid ass.
There are rich people for bush. There are rich people for kerry.
There are poor people for bush. There are poor people for kerry. |
I know I was generalizing, that's why I said "tend to".. "gravitate towards"...
It is a documented fact that the top 1% of income earners are overwhelmingly Republican-oriented in their political orientation, as is the rural South. You're the one that loves to show off "all that red"!
If I had said "OMG ALL HICKS R REPUBLICOS N SO R RICH FUCKRS"
then, yeah, you would have had a point
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Yellow Journalist
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 20 Oct 2002
Posts: 1973
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 15:18 Post subject:
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Kerry and Bush should draw straws for Presidency
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 15:24 Post subject:
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| Rennol wrote: | | Frax wrote: | | Rennol wrote: | | Leilu wrote: | It seems like your vote would actually directly count if it was popular. So I live in Missouri, which is by definition a "swing" state. Luckily this year, we've had alot of attention from the press and both candidates. My state has 2 somewhat large cities on both east and west borders surrounding a whole bunch of white-trash and back woods cousin lovers in the middle. Unfortunately, the cousin loving white trash picks which way my state goes every 4 years because they can reproduce faster than they can put on a condom.
Of course I want to contribute to the idea of democracy as much as possible, and in doing so see the importance of voting, but I can't help but think that my vote doesn't count when as soon as I've cast it, some cousin lover in Troy has already cancelled out my ballot. |
My uncle lives in Missouri. One of the smartest people I know (along with his brother). Excellent lawyer. Very witty, humorous. A diehard Bush/Republican supporter.
I wonder if he would change his party affiliation if I reminded him that all the uneducated white trash idiots love Bush. Why he would put himself in with them is... strange.
It's just ironic that both the most ignorant and most wealthy segments of society in this country tend to gravitate towards the same end of the political spectrum. |
way to generalize, stupid ass.
There are rich people for bush. There are rich people for kerry.
There are poor people for bush. There are poor people for kerry. |
I know I was generalizing, that's why I said "tend to".. "gravitate towards"...
It is a documented fact that the top 1% of income earners are overwhelmingly Republican-oriented in their political orientation, as is the rural South. You're the one that loves to show off "all that red"!
If I had said "OMG ALL HICKS R REPUBLICOS N SO R RICH FUCKRS"
then, yeah, you would have had a point |
My point was valid.. you are a stupid ass.
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Leilu
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 1164
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 15:32 Post subject:
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Whoa fellas! I was just saying that no matter what their decision is, it sucks that the cast of Deliverance represents my ENTIRE state. Just seems more relevant for my vote to go the candidate I choose, not to try and fight over some imaginary "electoral votes" within the state.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 15:37 Post subject:
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| Leilu wrote: | | Whoa fellas! I was just saying that no matter what their decision is, it sucks that the cast of Deliverance represents my ENTIRE state. Just seems more relevant for my vote to go the candidate I choose, not to try and fight over some imaginary "electoral votes" within the state. |
You are correct. However a popular vote would basically end up the same way as 2000, or worse.
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lotek
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1598
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 16:05 Post subject:
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| fagarom wrote: | | lotek wrote: | If it was a popular vote, then la, new york, houston and pheonix would decided for everyone else.
consider it affirmitive action for the smaller states. |
I think that is the most flawed argument I've ever heard. |
would you care to explain how its flawed, when in fact its the reason for it?
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 16:11 Post subject:
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"f**k me, Santa! f**k me, Santa! f**k me, Santa! f**k me, Santa! f**k me, Santa! f**k me, Santa! f**k me, Santa! f**k me, Santa!"
-- Bad Santa scene
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Leilu
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 1164
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 16:12 Post subject:
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Hahahaha. I totally cried at the wooden pickle. What a sucker.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 10/11/04 - 17:57 Post subject:
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Interesting, Rennol brings up a point I was discussing with my mother just yesterday. Basically, what in the hell happened to the Republican party? It wasn't the NASCAR party even during the Reagan administration... and now look.
It looked like there was a rift forming within the party in the early 90's with Perot and Pat Buchanan taking their pieces. In order to survive, party leaders adopted the Christian Coalition's platform and essentially absorbed that faction. It's been downhill ever since, they get more irrational by the day.
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