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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 7044
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Posted: 11/17/04 - 13:24 Post subject: Election Fraud
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It's starting to sound like their is some truth to this election fraud stuff after all. Check this out. Executive summary:
blackboxvoting.org people file FOI request to see Volusia county election records. Officials give them fresh printouts that were just prepared, with no signatures. They ask to see the originals; officials refuse. They investigate, repeatedly find many officially signed originals in the trash or destined for the shredder. The officially signed originals which were to be destroyed show many more votes for Kerry than were actually recorded; the fresh new printouts don't. County officials threaten blackboxvoting.org with arrest; lawyers lock down the whole thing, hopefully before too much evidence is destroyed.
| Quote: |
TUESDAY NOV 16 2004: Volusia County on lockdown
County election records just got put on lockdown
Dueling lawyers, election officials gnashing teeth, Votergate.tv film crew catching it all.
Here's what happened so far:
Friday Black Box Voting investigators Andy Stephenson and Kathleen Wynne popped in to ask for some records. They were rebuffed by an elections official named Denise. Bev Harris called on the cell phone from investigations in downstate Florida, and told Volusia County Elections Supervisor Deanie Lowe that Black Box Voting would be in to pick up the Nov. 2 Freedom of Information request, or would file for a hand recount. "No, Bev, please don't do that!" Lowe exclaimed. But this is the way it has to be, folks. Black Box Voting didn't back down.
Monday Bev, Andy and Kathleen came in with a film crew and asked for the FOIA request. Deanie Lowe gave it over with a smile, but Harris noticed that one item, the polling place tapes, were not copies of the real ones, but instead were new printouts, done on Nov. 15, and not signed by anyone.
Harris asked to see the real ones, and they said for "privacy" reasons they can't make copies of the signed ones. She insisted on at least viewing them (although refusing to give copies of the signatures is not legally defensible, according to Berkeley elections attorney, Lowell Finley). They said the real ones were in the County Elections warehouse. It was quittin' time and an arrangment was made to come back this morning to review them.
Lana Hires, a Volusia County employee who gained some notoriety in an election 2000 Diebold memo, where she asked for an explanation of minus 16,022 votes for Gore, so she wouldn't have to stand there "looking dumb" when the auditor came in, was particularly unhappy about seeing the Black Box Voting investigators in the office. She vigorously shook her head when Deanie Lowe suggested going to the warehouse.
Kathleen Wynne and Bev Harris showed up at the warehouse at 8:15 Tuesday morning, Nov. 16. There was Lana Hires looking especially gruff, yet surprised. She ordered them out. Well, they couldn't see why because there she was, with a couple other people, handling the original poll tapes. You know, the ones with the signatures on them. Harris and Wynne stepped out and Volusia County officials promptly shut the door.
There was a trash bag on the porch outside the door. Harris looked into it and what do you know, but there were poll tapes in there. They came out and glared at Harris and Wynne, who drove away a small bit, and then videotaped the license plates of the two vehicles marked 'City Council' member. Others came out to glare and soon all doors were slammed.
So, Harris and Wynne went and parked behind a bus to see what they would do next. They pulled out some large pylons, which blocked the door. Harris decided to go look at the garbage some more while Wynne videotaped. A man who identified himself as "Pete" came out and Harris immediately wrote a public records request for the contents of the garbage bag, which also contained ballots -- real ones, but not filled out.
A brief tug of war occurred, tearing the garbage bag open. Harris and Wynne then looked through it, as Pete looked on. He was quite friendly.
Black Box Voting collected various poll tapes and other information and asked if they could copy it, for the public records request. "You won't be going anywhere," said Pete. "The deputy is on his way."
Yes, not one but two police cars came up and then two county elections officials, and everyone stood around discussing the merits of the "black bag" public records request.
The police finally let Harris and Wynne go, about the time the Votergate.tv film crew arrived, and everyone trooped off to the elections office. There, the plot thickened.
Black Box Voting began to compare the special printouts given in the FOIA request with the signed polling tapes from election night. Lo and behold, some were missing. By this time, Black Box Voting investigator Andy Stephenson had joined the group at Volusia County. Some polling place tapes didn't match. In fact, in one location, precinct 215, an African-American precinct, the votes were off by hundreds, in favor of George W. Bush and other Republicans.
Hmm. Which was right? The polling tape Volusia gave to Black Box Voting, specially printed on Nov. 15, without signatures, or the ones with signatures, printed on Nov. 2, with up to 8 signatures per tape?
Well, then it became even more interesting. A Volusia employee boxed up some items from an office containing Lana Hires' desk, which appeared to contain -- you guessed it -- polling place tapes. The employee took them to the back of the building and disappeared.
Then, Ellen B., a voting integrity advocate from Broward County, Florida, and Susan, from Volusia, decided now would be a good time to go through the trash at the elections office. Lo and behold, they found all kinds of memos and some polling place tapes, fresh from Volusia elections office.
So, Black Box Voting compared these with the Nov. 2 signed ones and the "special' ones from Nov. 15 given, unsigned, finding several of the MISSING poll tapes. There they were: In the garbage.
So, Wynne went to the car and got the polling place tapes she had pulled from the warehouse garbage. My my my. There were not only discrepancies, but a polling place tape that was signed by six officials.
This was a bit disturbing, since the employees there had said that bag was destined for the shredder.
By now, a county lawyer had appeared on the scene, suddenly threatening to charge Black Box Voting extra for the time spent looking at the real stuff Volusia had withheld earlier. Other lawyers appeared, phoned, people had meetings, Lana glowered at everyone, and someone shut the door in the office holding the GEMS server.
Black Box Voting investigator Andy Stephenson then went to get the Diebold "GEMS" central server locked down. He also got the memory cards locked down and secured, much to the dismay of Lana. They were scattered around unsecured in any way before that.
Everyone agreed to convene tomorrow morning, to further audit, discuss the hand count that Black Box Voting will require of Volusia County, and of course, it is time to talk about contesting the election in Volusia.
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Yabden
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 13 Oct 2002 Posts: 2485
Location: Ohio
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Posted: 11/17/04 - 13:28 Post subject:
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interesting.....oh wait
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 11/17/04 - 13:49 Post subject:
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Reads like something from alt.black.helicopters
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi

Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 11/17/04 - 13:59 Post subject:
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Hey!
Guess what!
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 11/17/04 - 14:08 Post subject:
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They called him The Little Sherrif? LOL
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xeqer
Luke Warm

Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 348
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Posted: 11/17/04 - 16:11 Post subject:
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Hmmm, how do I feel about this...
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xeqer
Luke Warm

Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 348
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Posted: 11/17/04 - 16:13 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | They called him The Little Sherrif? LOL |
Germany isn't exactly what I'd call a good prototype for selecting leaders.
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi

Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 11/17/04 - 16:56 Post subject:
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| xeqer wrote: | Hmmm, how do I feel about this...
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LOL
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Melee
Luke Warm

Joined: 24 Mar 2003 Posts: 185
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Posted: 11/18/04 - 02:48 Post subject:
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talk to ANYONE in Florida, they will tell you one of two things:
"Bush cheated his way into office again. I know our county's votes were rigged"
or:
"yes i know they were rigged in my county. But who cares? that Kerry is the devil"
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Kintheris
Luke Warm

Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 318
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Posted: 11/18/04 - 02:57 Post subject:
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<laughs> I live in CA, I voted for Kerry because well its a blue state had to make my vote count. Anyhow, I kind of felt stupid after I voted for him the next day because, on November 2, John Kerry and Edwards said 'We will see this through to the last ballot!' The next morning Kerry conceeds, what a f*****g p***y Think I may start to vote for a more conservative j*****s down the road
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Starks
Toomuchtimeonhands

Joined: 17 Oct 2002 Posts: 865
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Posted: 11/18/04 - 12:09 Post subject:
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better post
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 11/18/04 - 15:20 Post subject:
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| Melee wrote: | talk to ANYONE in Florida, they will tell you one of two things:
"Bush cheated his way into office again. I know our county's votes were rigged"
or:
"yes i know they were rigged in my county. But who cares? that Kerry is the devil" |
If the elections were rigged/cheated why are there not 1000000 lawsuits flying around?
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 8461
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Posted: 11/18/04 - 15:29 Post subject:
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| Kintheris wrote: | <laughs> I live in CA, I voted for Kerry because well its a blue state had to make my vote count. Anyhow, I kind of felt stupid after I voted for him the next day because, on November 2, John Kerry and Edwards said 'We will see this through to the last ballot!' The next morning Kerry conceeds, what a f*****g p***y Think I may start to vote for a more conservative j*****s down the road |
See... on one side of the spectrum you have people saying he's a p***y for conceding. On the other you have people like Abibabi who think he waited too long and was just being a drama queen. You can't ever win.
-Nah-
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Starks
Toomuchtimeonhands

Joined: 17 Oct 2002 Posts: 865
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Posted: 11/18/04 - 16:06 Post subject:
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You have to gain evidence and then file for a lawsuit of such nature. This is not a civil lawsuit where you can just start suing because someone did something to you. This will be a criminal lawsuit in which you have to develop cases first. I know all about it because I watched Law and Order once.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 11/18/04 - 16:59 Post subject:
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not really, you can file a lawsuit against the state saying they didn't protect your voting rights. Thats probably enough to get the ball rolling.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Posts: 7137
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Desaitar
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 2641
Location: whore island
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Posted: 11/18/04 - 23:59 Post subject:
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lol no nahu, what kinth said was that once he said he was gonna count every ballot he should have instead of conceeding the next morning =p
it was over, only cnn (big suprise) hadnt said it was over. the right thing to do woulda been give up when it ended lol. just my opinion =p
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quotison
RealPoor Sensei

Joined: 13 Oct 2002 Posts: 1594
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Posted: 11/19/04 - 00:21 Post subject:
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If there are X ballots left to be counted and you're losing by X + Y ballots, then you're not going to win, regardless of whether every single last one of those ballots are counted.
| Quote: | | it was over, only cnn (big suprise) hadnt said it was over. the right thing to do woulda been give up when it ended lol. just my opinion =p |
The networks also said that Gore won Florida on Election night in 2000. Letting the networks make the decision for you regarding concession is probably a bad idea.
I appericiate Kerry waiting a few hours to make a decision, after they knew all the facts. Then again, I don't consider it a national crisis if we're unsure about the result of the election more then 5 minutes after the polls close.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 11/19/04 - 07:47 Post subject:
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However not a single one of those is based upon someone actually counting votes. They are based on statisical models not fact.
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot

Joined: 30 Nov 2002 Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 11/19/04 - 07:54 Post subject: -==-
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PRINGLES IN YOUR FACE
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Plat4PoP
RealPoor Jedi

Joined: 12 Oct 2002 Posts: 14376
Location: USA
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Posted: 11/19/04 - 08:00 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: |
However not a single one of those is based upon someone actually counting votes. They are based on statisical models not fact. |
No but there have been other stories about vote counters counting it wrong or turning in inaccurate numbers. Like the articles said, this is not proof in itself but a smoke alarm, where there is smoke there is fire.
I hope its all a farce and Bush really did win. I hate to see the Republicans try to blame everyone but themselves for a huge voter fraud scandal.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 11/19/04 - 08:21 Post subject:
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| Plat4PoP wrote: | | Frax wrote: |
However not a single one of those is based upon someone actually counting votes. They are based on statisical models not fact. |
No but there have been other stories about vote counters counting it wrong or turning in inaccurate numbers. Like the articles said, this is not proof in itself but a smoke alarm, where there is smoke there is fire.
I hope its all a farce and Bush really did win. I hate to see the Republicans try to blame everyone but themselves for a huge voter fraud scandal. |
Even if there turns out to be some issues, it will never, ever lead to GWB.
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Kintheris
Luke Warm

Joined: 09 Jun 2003 Posts: 318
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Posted: 11/19/04 - 21:48 Post subject:
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| Nahualli wrote: | | Kintheris wrote: | <laughs> I live in CA, I voted for Kerry because well its a blue state had to make my vote count. Anyhow, I kind of felt stupid after I voted for him the next day because, on November 2, John Kerry and Edwards said 'We will see this through to the last ballot!' The next morning Kerry conceeds, what a f*****g p***y Think I may start to vote for a more conservative j*****s down the road |
See... on one side of the spectrum you have people saying he's a p***y for conceding. On the other you have people like Abibabi who think he waited too long and was just being a drama queen. You can't ever win.
-Nah- |
Nah I don't reckon you got what I was saying. I said he was a p***y because they said they were going to wait until every last vote was counted. And yet they didn't. Had they just shut their c**k smokers, and let everything happen, I wouldn't have minded if he had conceeded at 12AM 11-03-2004 but that wasn't the case heh oh well its over now who cares if there was fraud at least it is ONLY 4 more years
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 2398
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Posted: 11/20/04 - 00:18 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: |
Even if there turns out to be some issues, it will never, ever lead to GWB. |
true, for a number of reasons, first being that Dubya is an instrument of the lord and we know how that works.
and second, there are enough republican nutjobs to do it all on their own without any proding from the upper echelon.
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kbarr
RealPoor Jedi

Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 11239
Location: New York, now go fuck off...
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Posted: 11/20/04 - 00:34 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | | Frax wrote: |
Even if there turns out to be some issues, it will never, ever lead to GWB. |
true, for a number of reasons, first being that Dubya is an instrument of the lord |
Damn skippy!
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ATM Banana
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 02 Jan 2003 Posts: 8575
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Posted: 11/20/04 - 22:01 Post subject:
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Freud.
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Domination
Can't Stop Posting

Joined: 13 Oct 2002 Posts: 565
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: 11/22/04 - 19:44 Post subject:
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You b*****s want some cheese with your whine?
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 11 Oct 2002 Posts: 8461
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Posted: 11/22/04 - 20:16 Post subject:
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| Domination wrote: | | You b*****s want some cheese with your whine? |
MMmmmmm.... cheese !!
-Nah-
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ATM Banana
RealPoor Master of Posts

Joined: 02 Jan 2003 Posts: 8575
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Posted: 11/25/04 - 02:28 Post subject:
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| Domination wrote: | | You b*****s want some cheese with your whine? |
no, i want 12 gangsters to ejaculate on your face.
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Plat4PoP
RealPoor Jedi

Joined: 12 Oct 2002 Posts: 14376
Location: USA
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Posted: 11/30/04 - 19:21 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | Plat4PoP wrote: | | Frax wrote: |
However not a single one of those is based upon someone actually counting votes. They are based on statisical models not fact. |
No but there have been other stories about vote counters counting it wrong or turning in inaccurate numbers. Like the articles said, this is not proof in itself but a smoke alarm, where there is smoke there is fire.
I hope its all a farce and Bush really did win. I hate to see the Republicans try to blame everyone but themselves for a huge voter fraud scandal. |
Even if there turns out to be some issues, it will never, ever lead to GWB. |
You are right. They learned their lesson with Nixon. Insulate the President.
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