|
|
| Author |
Message |
Jakanden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 5334
Location: Fuck if I know - I am always lost
|
 Posted: 06/25/04 - 18:53 Post subject: Critics Turning Up Heat on Michael Moore
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Critics Turning Up Heat on Michael Moore
By DAVID GERMAIN
Jun 24, 11:24 PM (EDT)
AP Photo/Regan Books, HO LOS ANGELES (AP) - Michael Moore's critics are turning up the temperature with a book and documentary intended to debunk his methods as the filmmaker's ``Fahrenheit 9/11'' hits theaters.
Since his first movie, 1989's ``Roger & Me,'' Moore has been accused of playing loose with the facts and presenting a distorted version of the truth. The criticism, usually in newspaper and magazine articles or on anti-Moore Web sites, has failed to click with his millions of fans, who pushed the Academy Award-winning ``Bowling for Columbine'' to a $21.6 million box-office pay day and put Moore's last two books on the best-seller lists.
Moore's opposition has a higher profile this time as ``Fahrenheit 9/11,'' his assault on President Bush's actions regarding the Sept. 11 attacks, debuts nationwide Friday.
On Tuesday, David T. Hardy and Jason Clarke will publish ``Michael Moore Is a Big Fat Stupid White Man,'' in which the authors accuse Moore of ``serial mendacity.'' The book is published by Regan Books, which also printed Moore's ``Stupid White Men.''
Hardy and Clarke take issue with such matters as the timeline of economic events Moore presents surrounding General Motors plant closings in his home turf of Flint, Mich., in ``Roger & Me''; the parallels Moore draws between the Ku Klux Klan and the National Rifle Association in ``Bowling for Columbine''; and Moore's refutation in his book ``Dude, Where's My Country?'' of potential ties between Iraq and Osama bin Laden.
``He creates a false impression without ever uttering a word that is untrue,'' said Hardy, a former U.S. Interior Department attorney who runs the Web site mooreexposed.com. ``Moore is a master of that.''
Filmmaker Michael Wilson hopes to have his documentary ``Michael Moore Hates America'' in theaters late this summer as a rebuttal to ``Fahrenheit 9/11.'' Wilson said he admired ``Roger & Me'' but found ``Bowling for Columbine'' troublesome.
Moore's handling of a 6-year-old girl shot to death by a classmate in Flint particularly bothered Wilson. ``Bowling for Columbine'' implies welfare reform was to blame, detailing how the shooter's mother had to work two jobs and take a bus to another town to work, so she could not properly tend to her children, Wilson said.
The mother had left her son at his uncle's home, which prosecutors described as a flophouse where occupants traded guns and drugs. The boy found the gun there and took it to school.
``All this stuff added up to her being a lousy mother. It had nothing to do with her having to work two jobs,'' Wilson said. ``My mom had to work two jobs to make our lives better and guess what? I didn't shoot anybody. It felt like a slap in the face to all these people out there trying to make their lives better and live out the American dream.''
Wilson, Hardy and Clarke, who say they are moderates with no political agenda against left-winger Moore, take a cue from Moore's approach, aiming to package their criticism in satiric humor. The cover of Hardy and Clarke's book has an image of Moore biting off the top of the U.S. Capitol, a caricature resembling Terry Gilliam's surreal animation for ``Monty Python's Flying Circus.''
The Web site for ``Michael Moore Hates America'' shows Wilson holding a microphone to an empty director's chair bearing Moore's name, an image reminiscent of Moore's pursuit of General Motors boss Roger Smith in ``Roger & Me.'' Wilson said he has unsuccessfully tried to land an interview with Moore for his documentary.
Moore declined an interview for this article, although he's previously said the film is ``an op-ed piece,'' and not a work of journalism - and his backers defended the new film.
``For all the people who are spending so much time urging censorship and boycott and going to such great lengths in what I consider a lame attempt to discredit Michael Moore, Michael must be doing something right,'' said Tom Ortenberg, president of Lions Gates Films, one of the companies distributing ``Fahrenheit 9/11.''
``Fahrenheit 9/11'' underwent thorough factual scrutiny, said Harvey Weinstein, whose Miramax banner was prohibited by parent company Disney from releasing the movie. Weinstein and his brother, Bob, bought back the film and arranged for distribution by Lions Gate and IFC Films.
``I hired the toughest team of fact checkers I could find, lawyers and head counsel from The New Yorker,'' Harvey Weinstein said in an e-mail response to questions from The Associated Press. ``We invited them to be tough - and they were. All journalism should be this careful.''
On the Net:
Michael Moore's official site: http://www.michaelmoore.com
David T. Hardy's Moore site: http://www.mooreexposed.com
Jason Clarke's Moore site: http://www.moorelies.com
Michael Wilson's movie site: http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com
|
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
 |
Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
|
|
Posted: 06/25/04 - 18:59 Post subject:
|
|
|
That's sure to make people stop listening to him 
People have to learn to stop giving attention to people they don't like.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
pyrgomache
Sir Postalot
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 1075
Location: Here
|
|
Posted: 06/25/04 - 19:02 Post subject:
|
|
|
God damnit I hate michael moore =(
<listens intently>
Eh?
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
median
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 2183
Location: Hamillton, Canada
|
|
Posted: 06/25/04 - 19:17 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Michaels trying to do somthing differant. The more power to him!
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
merdocc
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2038
Location: Pasadena Ca
|
|
Posted: 06/25/04 - 19:25 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Michael moore shows images from 2 years prior or after the topic he is discussing that leave the impression that they were during the event he is talking about. He never says they are from that exact time period so he actually never lies he is just a fucktard. He displays iraqi children flying kites and then iraq being bombed to hell as if they happened in succesion. While having good points it is bordering on propaganda. I think he is a decent film maker but the way he tries to prove his point is just as good as lying.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
|
|
Posted: 06/25/04 - 19:42 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Despite what anybody says, Michael Moore flat out lies. I just saw him on comedey central claim that America is a liberal nation and that polls prove it. In actuality, polls questioning whether people are liberal or conservative show that conservatives outnumber liberals by about 1.5 to 1. His "proof" were surveys on issues like the "environment", etc. Of course if you ask someone "Do you want a clean environment", the vast majority will agree. Moore doesn't mention the skewed polls. He puts out a skewed "fact" (which is a lie) then combines it with faulty claims (that America is mostly liberal) and blends these lies and false inferrences together into one giant misrepresentation of everything. The problem with his movies is that his lies can't be disputed in the theater. When he claims that polling proves America is liberal, you can't interject and correct his lie. Instead he draws conclusion upon unchallenged faulty conclusion for two hours.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Abi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 1747
|
|
Posted: 06/25/04 - 19:46 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Michael Moore and Gore Vidal should get married.. they are perfect for each other...
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
|
|
Posted: 06/25/04 - 21:14 Post subject: -==-
|
|
|
I believe Michael Moore wants Bush to get re-elected more than anyone else.
Then he could make a sequel.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
|
|
Posted: 06/25/04 - 21:20 Post subject: Re: -==-
|
|
|
| Vengar_OO wrote: | I believe Michael Moore wants Bush to get re-elected more than anyone else.
Then he could make a sequel. |
He makes movies when Democrats are presidents, only then he attacks Corporate America.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124295/
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
|
|
Posted: 06/25/04 - 21:27 Post subject:
|
|
|
why the f**k does a MM post have to get so many replies
hes a fuckshit
lets call it a night
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Jakanden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 5334
Location: Fuck if I know - I am always lost
|
|
Posted: 06/25/04 - 22:13 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Overon wrote: | why the f**k does a MM post have to get so many replies
hes a fuckshit
lets call it a night |
It is fairly annoying. I am heavy into movies and I check about 15 movie news sites a day. MM is the top story on almost all of them lately and it really sucks heh.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Bob Dole
Luke Warm
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 163
|
|
Posted: 06/26/04 - 22:26 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
The good news is that there is an opening at the Iraqi Information Ministry. The bad news is it's already been promised to Michael Moore.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
|
|
Posted: 06/27/04 - 15:26 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
is it really true that air force 1 picked up members of bin laden's family on 9/11?
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
|
|
Posted: 06/27/04 - 16:24 Post subject:
|
|
|
| lauren000 wrote: | | is it really true that air force 1 picked up members of bin laden's family on 9/11? |
of course!
bush and bin laden are golfing buddies .. i thought everybody knew that
Bush: "Nice stroke LadMan, but not good enough!"
Bin Laden: "Oh GW, youd better be careful or I'll call a Jihad on your country of infidels!"
Bush: "Haha hahah, oh LadMan .. such a kidder"
no
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Dril
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 07 Nov 2003
Posts: 501
|
|
Posted: 06/27/04 - 16:47 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Yea, it beat out White Chicks lol.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
|
|
Posted: 06/27/04 - 16:50 Post subject:
|
|
|
|
Not bad considering it's playing on 1900 less screens.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Manuva
Banned
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 2536
|
|
Posted: 06/27/04 - 20:02 Post subject:
|
|
|
| lauren000 wrote: | | is it really true that air force 1 picked up members of bin laden's family on 9/11? |
Might be!
AFAIK...the Bin Laden family are legimate business people who don't support Osama's actions. They're currently building the tallest structure in the world, somewhere in Europe I believe?
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
|
|
Posted: 06/27/04 - 20:08 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Manuva wrote: | | lauren000 wrote: | | is it really true that air force 1 picked up members of bin laden's family on 9/11? |
Might be!
AFAIK...the Bin Laden family are legimate business people who don't support Osama's actions. They're currently building the tallest structure in the world, somewhere in Europe I believe? |
The way it was explained to me is Moore took the fact that air force 1 picked up Osama's family on 9/11 and developed the idea that the president was connected. It sounds like b******t, but it is an interesting concept.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
|
|
Posted: 06/27/04 - 21:08 Post subject:
|
|
|
| lauren000 wrote: | | Manuva wrote: | | lauren000 wrote: | | is it really true that air force 1 picked up members of bin laden's family on 9/11? |
Might be!
AFAIK...the Bin Laden family are legimate business people who don't support Osama's actions. They're currently building the tallest structure in the world, somewhere in Europe I believe? |
The way it was explained to me is Moore took the fact that air force 1 picked up Osama's family on 9/11 and developed the idea that the president was connected. It sounds like b******t, but it is an interesting concept. |
its one conclussion but since there are many other possible conclussions its not worth believing in moores theory on this. While its is in fact possible it is not probable nor is it even up there in the ranks of theorys on what happened. It is only a candidate for speculation because it is possible and can not be proved wrong. They see this one thing and say this conclussion may be possible because of this thing, however we have no evidence to suport such a conclusion... therefore even without the evidence to the contrary that exists (and there is a hell of alot of it even if it stops short of totally disproving the theory) it is a poor theory. Simply put we can not believe in things just because the evidence to the contrary is not totally convincing. Let moore prove bush guilty next time instead of attempt to make bush prove his innocence.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Kendolekk
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 750
|
|
Posted: 06/27/04 - 23:22 Post subject:
|
|
|
| lauren000 wrote: | | Manuva wrote: | | lauren000 wrote: | | is it really true that air force 1 picked up members of bin laden's family on 9/11? |
Might be!
AFAIK...the Bin Laden family are legimate business people who don't support Osama's actions. They're currently building the tallest structure in the world, somewhere in Europe I believe? |
The way it was explained to me is Moore took the fact that air force 1 picked up Osama's family on 9/11 and developed the idea that the president was connected. It sounds like b******t, but it is an interesting concept. |
F-9/11 claims that 20 some odd members of the Bin Laden family and 140 or so total Saudi Arabians were flown out of the country (not by Air Force One) while all flights were supposed to be grounded.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
|
|
Posted: 06/28/04 - 00:08 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Kendolekk wrote: | | lauren000 wrote: | | Manuva wrote: | | lauren000 wrote: | | is it really true that air force 1 picked up members of bin laden's family on 9/11? |
Might be!
AFAIK...the Bin Laden family are legimate business people who don't support Osama's actions. They're currently building the tallest structure in the world, somewhere in Europe I believe? |
The way it was explained to me is Moore took the fact that air force 1 picked up Osama's family on 9/11 and developed the idea that the president was connected. It sounds like b******t, but it is an interesting concept. |
F-9/11 claims that 20 some odd members of the Bin Laden family and 140 or so total Saudi Arabians were flown out of the country (not by Air Force One) while all flights were supposed to be grounded. |
this is probably true, but the reason is probably because there was widespread fear (in the administration) of a public backlash in reaction to 9/11 and they believed those peoples lives were in danger. Had people heard osamas family is at xx location there probably would have been huge riots and marches and attacks against where they were in order to capture and kill them. (imagine if pearl harbor had been carried out by a rogue japanesse admiral and the rest of the japanesse admirallty and heads of state were in the US at the time, guilty or not they would have been in incredible danger.) So the people in charge picked the best possible solution, they could not let the people stay here in the open, they could not hold them in prison, they could not hold them in a place like the white house under guard (well they could have but it would have been a PR nightmare, BUSH KEEPS PEOPLE FROM GIVING JUSTICE TO THE OSAMAS AND KEEPS THEM SAFE IN HIS HOUSE) so the best solution was to get them out of reach and out of jurisdiction of the USA so peoples anger did not reflect wrongly on the closest target that kinda sorta looked like the real one... if you remember they launched ad campaigns against attacking muslims, and thats just random muslims (and some attacks did happen) so you can imagine what would have happened if a target as tempting as the guiltys family showed up...
People will wonder about this because they dont remember how hot headed they were at the time of the attacks and will say 'na if they were hear i wouldnt a done anything' well that would be an evaluation of how you would react now since very few people actually have the ability to go back in time in their minds and remember how they felt at a momeny and determine what they would have done had more information been available to them (seeing history with respect to the culture at the time and judging from that perspective is hard to do and this is very similar)
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Zab
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 1222
|
|
Posted: 06/28/04 - 00:35 Post subject:
|
|
|
Spiderman 2 > all! ( this wednesday ) this i predict!
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
|
|
Posted: 06/28/04 - 00:42 Post subject:
|
|
|
well even I went to see it, I bet alot of people went to see it out of curiousity rather than actually because we love mm... besides he claimed stuff that was to radical for most people to believe, people will believe that the NRA is evil, people will not believe that their president conspired to help terrorists escape or orcestrated (or take part in at all) a massive attack on his own country in order to achieve something... it wont be believed because people dont want to believe it.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Kendolekk
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 750
|
|
Posted: 06/28/04 - 01:23 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Tolanin wrote: | | people will not believe that their president conspired to help terrorists escape or orcestrated (or take part in at all) a massive attack on his own country in order to achieve something... |
That wasn't exactly the point being put across by the movie. More of just showing that personal financial interests weighed heavily on many of the presidents decisions.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
icebreaker
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 396
|
|
Posted: 06/28/04 - 08:09 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Quote: |
That wasn't exactly the point being put across by the movie. More of just showing that personal financial interests weighed heavily on many of the presidents decisions. |
Moore "suggests" allot of things but proves nothing..the facts presented were pretty well known by now by everyone. The "Implied" motives are 100% pure Micheal Moore Liberal BS Spin.
When he says we only (meaning you americans) pay bush 400grand ayear and this company has paid bush's family and friends and their related businesses 1.4billion(a squewed number since it doesn't show how much bush actuall gets).... where would you expect his loyalty to lie. Well for me I expect his loyalty to lie with his Country CUS NO ONE BECOMES THE PRESIDENT TO BECOME RICH! mostly those that do Run are already financially well off anyways.
I'm glad i downloaded it tho just so i can laugh at all the sheep i'm sure i'll hear from at work that mindlessly will believe every implied motive MM suggested.
For a more detailed analysis of how MM likes to manipulate the "FACTS"
check out http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
|
|
Posted: 06/28/04 - 20:42 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Zab wrote: |
Spiderman 2 > all! ( this wednesday ) this i predict! |
Yeah, no doubt.
The local critic here called Spidey 2 the best comic book adaption he's ever seen, and most of the reviews I've read so far claim it's better than the first. Spiderman 2 is going to be huge.
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
Jakanden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 5334
Location: Fuck if I know - I am always lost
|
|
Posted: 06/28/04 - 20:45 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Akronn wrote: | | Zab wrote: |
Spiderman 2 > all! ( this wednesday ) this i predict! |
Yeah, no doubt.
The local critic here called Spidey 2 the best comic book adaption he's ever seen, and most of the reviews I've read so far claim it's better than the first. Spiderman 2 is going to be huge. |
Yes that what I have been reading as well. I have not seen one negative review on Spiderman 2. I can't wait for it and Spiderman 3 (Even though it just got green-lit, I still want it now damnit!).
|
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
