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Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
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 Posted: 04/17/04 - 01:53 Post subject: Computer Question -- Hardware Malfunctioning
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Maybe someone more experienced with this sort of thing can help me..
Problem:
I have had 2 motherboards over the past year, and one processor. My first motherboard had a defect in it and I RMAd it .. while it was being RMAd I bought a second motherboard.
A problem that was happening on my first motherboard was that my computer would totally randomly restart. But it would seem to only restart when I was physically using it somehow.
Now that I have the second motherboard it is doing the same exact thing. Randomly restarting but it seems to only do it when I am using it.
I have postulated that it may be a problem with my video card, but I am unsure whether or not the problem started with the video card or not, it may have happened prior to getting the card .. i dont remember .. I also don't see how my video card could cause a problem like that.
It may also be a problem with my processor. A possible problem I would guess is that somehow the heat detection on the processor itself is causing it to inaccurately read an overheat and restart the computer because of it.
I do not believe it to be the motherboard since it happened with both motherboards.
If anyone has any ideas or input it would be helpful. I have gone through way too many f*****g computer problems over the past year to want to have to deal with it again and buy more shit to put in the beast.
Hardware Configuration:
Old motherboard: ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe
New motherboard: ABIT IC7
Processor: Pentium 4 2.4C 800mhz FSB
RAM: same ram with both motherboards, some samsung 2700 DDR or something .. it could potentially be the ram but i dont know ..
Hard Drive: new hard drive with the new motherboard
Video Card: eVGA Geforce 5900 (128mb)
Last edited by Overon on 04/17/04 - 01:58; edited 1 time in total
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morbless
Total Newbie
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 35
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 01:55 Post subject:
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Power supply nuff said
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r00typooh
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5178
Location: Miami, FL
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 01:57 Post subject:
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random restarts are normally overheating issues wiht your processor. make sure you have sufficient air flow in your case, you have the correct fan on your processor and use some thermal paste
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Paden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 9362
Location: North CAROLINA!
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 01:58 Post subject:
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yeah could be a bad power supply
maybe even the video card.....
got an old video card laying around?
install it and see if it does it when useing it
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Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 01:59 Post subject:
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i have run programs to monitor the heat
they never show my processor as overheating
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Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 01:59 Post subject:
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it could potentially be the power supply, i have had that with both the motherboards
ill keep that in mind
but why would it only restart when im at the computer?
Last edited by Overon on 04/17/04 - 02:01; edited 1 time in total
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Banzai
Guest
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 02:00 Post subject:
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Your processor is off-set
It's a heat issue definately, probably your chip is not on right. Maybe even the fan is backwards.
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Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 02:02 Post subject:
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why would my heat detection software that came with my motherboard never tell me my processor is overheating ?
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Paden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 9362
Location: North CAROLINA!
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 02:07 Post subject:
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just put a nice big 80mm fan right on the side of your case like I did mine!
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Banzai
Guest
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 02:08 Post subject:
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Depends, how quick from boot up will the system shut down?
I had this problem on a friends system and his alert never kicked in either.
It's heat if your system locks or powers down. If it's critical then odds are very good your processor is to blame. In my friends case it was as simple as the fan being slightly elevated due to the fan being on wrong.
Power supply is also a likely culpret but that wouldn't really allow you to even boot if it's bad, if it spiked then maybe. But if you get x ammount of time with the system up then a lock down/reboot then your processor if overheateing and crashing your system.
The last option, and I have had this happen too, is your power cable is f****d. I once built a system and swapped eveything out only to discover that the power cord from the wall to the power supply was crimped.
It can be any number of things but from what you described it's the processor heating up to the point of system failure thus giveing you a window of operation until system failure.
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Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 03:03 Post subject:
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i dont know
i have my computer on for days at a time usually .. the only time it is generally powered off is when i restart it ..
it only seems to restart randomly only when I am using it, and totally randomly .. sometimes im talking on aim and *RESTART* .. sometimes im listening to music and *RESTART* sometimes im playing a game and *RESTART* it seems to have no predictable pattern and is totally random ..
it doesnt happen very often but it does happen .. and the weirdest thing is that it seems to only happen when i am on my computer .. i never come back to my computer to find myself on the login screen
it could potentially be some sort of overheating problem but why for days at a time would it work and then randomly restart only when i am using it, and not even using it for something that would cause elevated processing?
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compusmack
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 6354
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 05:09 Post subject:
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It's hard to tell without observing the problem firsthand, but it could be a number of things that (i think) can cause a reboot. Pretty much the same few ideas others have and a couple more:
1. Bad power supply. It doesn't have to completely be dead to be a bad power supply. I've had them just fail intermittently when they are bad, and I've even seen those eventually catch on fire.  Power supply issues may also be caused by dirty power, perhaps trying a UPS system might help in this case? Does your computer go into screensaver/powersave when you are away?
2. CPU overheat. Sounds strange that your monitoring this and never seeing anything, but defective parts may work for a short while until temperature crosses a threshold, then they may quickly heat up further as failure occurs. I've seen CPU fans that just stop working after a while, but you'd have to watch what's going on in the case until failure to be sure. It's also possible that the CPU fan is mounted improperly and/or there is inadequate airflow in the case. Again, does your computer go into screensaver/powersave when you are away? That would explain it's lack of issues when you aren't around.
3. Voltage issues with periphreal cards, especially video devices. Anyone who read about the new cards coming will tell you that video cards draw huge amounts of power in comparison to other boards. These boards may fail when they overheat, and failure leads to unpredictable system effects. I personally had serious issues last time I built a computer because the video board wasn't completely built to AGP specs for voltage, and it turned out the whole batch was bad. Some boards draw different power depending on the use, so it could be subject to screensavers/resolution/refresh rate/etc.
4. Corrupted OS. Just about anyone who worked on Windows machines over the last few years has seen how badly things can get corrupted when the system is subject to poorly written software or user negligence. If the system isn't a fresh windows install and it's filled with crappy software and/or bad drivers, it could just be crashing and rebooting.
5. Crazy other possibilities: Memory, grounding issues within the case, shorts in connections, loose wiring, crappy board mounting in the case, bad device drivers, or some periphreal issues.
Memory used to be a big culprit for system issues back in the day (486, etc), maybe you can test it with some of the software that's out there. Case issues also used to be a big one back in the day. I don't know how many times a poorly mounted motherboard was the culprit for random issues with reboots/power offs. Wiring is another that you should be able to test quickly, just open the case while it's running and jiggle shit around to see if it's a loose connection.
I've also seen bad device drivers that cause interrupt conflicts which may result in random reboots when certain devices are attempting to work simultaneously. This is a little easier to discover because you'd be trying to do something like use the dvd and joystick at the same time and it would just reboot when you did.
Some periphreals are just plain poorly made. This is probably unlikely to cause a reboot, but it may be possible (don't remember for sure) to short the USB and cause a reboot. I'd say this is probably unlikely to be the case, but it could be a last resort to find the problem.
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Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 12:47 Post subject:
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when im away after 20 mins my monitor turns off but thats it with the power saving .. and my monitor isnt even connected to the computer for power .. i dont know how the monitor turning off could effect other things though
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 15:38 Post subject:
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Your video card could cause the system to reboot.
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Kin
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 388
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Posted: 04/17/04 - 19:51 Post subject:
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if you have a shoddy power supply with unstable rails when you're putting stress on it, it could spike and reboot your CPU. I'd get a program to monitor and log your 12v, 5v, 3.3v, and core voltages, and look for spikes or dips in output. Even under stress mine never move more than maybe .03 of a volt.
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Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 14:01 Post subject:
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Ok ive had my computer on for over an hour now and i have my hardware monitor up:
status:
Vcore: 1.47V (low limit is 1.0 high limit 4.1)
DDR at 2.58V (low: 2, high: 2.99)
+3.3V at 3.22V (low:3.1, high 3.79)
+5V at 4.89V (low:4.49, high: 5.51)
+12V at 11.62V (low: 11.01, high: 13.02)
VDDQ at 1.28V (low: 1.18, high 2.10)
VTT at 1.52V (low: .99, high: 1.6)
Vbat at 3.2V (low: 2.8, high: 3.6)
5Vsb at 4.95V (low: 4.51, high: 5.5)
all fan speeds are very high (cpu dan and NB fan)
system temp at 38C (high is 60C)
cpu temp is 56C (high is 70C)
PWM temp is 45C (high is 60C)
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khrath
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8750
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 14:15 Post subject:
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Doess it happen only when playing 3d games?
Does windows bluescreen before it reboots?
If the answer to both of these is no, continue on...if it is yes on the first one, odds are pointing to your video card. If you answer yes on the second...give us the bsod message.
In <b>my</b> own personal experience, reboots are not usually cpu related, they are usually ram related, although overheating a cpu can cause a reboot. The other things everyone said can also cause reboots as well though, but the first thing i'd check is your ram....swap it out with known good ram, and use only 1 stick at a time....if there is something you know for sure that can crash it, try it several times....if it isnt ram, i'd try reseating your cpu, making sure you have enough thermal paste, and basic shit like that.
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Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
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Posted: 04/18/04 - 14:40 Post subject:
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It is the same ram as the ram I was using with the other board .. It could be the ram ..
What happens is:
Totally TOTALLY random reboot but it only happens while im using my computer ..
Ill be on aim and its working perfectly and im all like "LOL YE*RESTART* ...
and the restart is instantanious too .. its not like "computer lag .. computer lag .. restart" .. its just like *BAM RESTART MOFUCKA*
It happens any time, anywhere .. as long as im using my computer .. 3d games, regular windows operation (looking at webpages, talking on aim, b******t) ..
no pattern .. no predictability
i can try taking out my ram and stuff but i dont think i have any ram to replace it with .. and it only restarts every once and a while so im gunna have to hardcore use my computer for a few days to be sure theres any change .....
sigh
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gotissues68
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 1866
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Posted: 04/19/04 - 06:02 Post subject:
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go here: http://www.memtest86.com/
it *should* fail within the first 5 percent.. if it doesn't, then you're pretty safe thats its not the ram. It sounds like a dodgy power supply to me..
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Overon
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 3602
Location: PLANE OF PIXIES
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Posted: 04/19/04 - 16:35 Post subject:
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ran the memory test, it went through 12 times with no errors .. at that point i decided i probably have no errors
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Jinu
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2396
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Posted: 04/19/04 - 17:42 Post subject:
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On a related note, I get: driver irql not less or equal
blue screen of death sometimes while running IE.
I'm told it's an unstable overclock. Just thought that was interesting.
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