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principessa
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149
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 Posted: 10/19/03 - 16:37 Post subject: Carnivore/Pregnant students' rights
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Ok, so today I am surfing the 'net looking for pregnant students' rights and I wind up (of course) on the ACLU website and found this--I didn't know this, maybe some of you did, being in the field. All I can say is...I don't like it 
Urge Congress to Stop the FBI's Use of Privacy-Invading Software
In today's electronic age, an invasion of privacy is only a point and click away. This fact has become increasingly clear in recent months as Congress has begun to ask questions about a new online wiretapping system that the FBI calls "Carnivore." The system forces Internet service providers to attach a black box to their networks - essentially a powerful computer running specialized software - through which all of their subscribers' communications flow.
In traditional wiretaps, the government is required to minimize its interception of non-incriminating - or innocent - communications. But Carnivore does just the opposite by scanning through tens of millions of emails and other communications from innocent Internet users as well as the targeted suspect.
It is as though the FBI suddenly believes it has the right and legal authority to send agents into the Post Office to rip open each and every mailbag and search for one person's letters. To use another analogy, Carnivore is like the telephone company being forced to give the FBI access to all the calls on its network when it only has permission to seek the calls for one subscriber.
Dozens of politicians from across the political spectrum have called on the Department of Justice to suspend the use of Carnivore until Congress can determine its legality. Take action now to reinforce that message with your Members of Congress.
Put a Leash On Carnivore!
Carnivore is unnecessary.
Internet service providers can and have already been providing law enforcement agencies with the information for which they have a court order. There is no need for the dragnet that Carnivore represents when ISPs have already been zeroing in on legitimate targets.
The Fourth Amendment is built on the premise that law enforcement cannot be trusted with unsupervised authority when it conducts a search.
To accept the FBI's arguments in favor of Carnivore is to reject that core premise of the Fourth Amendment by giving the FBI carte blanche access to the communications of innocent people.
Carnivore comes at a time of record wiretapping by federal law enforcement.
In 1999, federal law enforcement conducted more wiretaps in one year than had ever been conducted before. And search warrants for online information from America Online subscribers doubled from 1998 to 1999. This is a time when Congress should be carefully examining the expansion of wiretapping in this country, not authorizing a new potential mass invasion of the privacy of law-abiding Americans.
TAKE ACTION!
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Finigan
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3817
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 16:41 Post subject:
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Why were you looking for pregnant students on the internet? Is it some sort of fetish?
Because if it is.. 
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kireol
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 9517
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 16:42 Post subject:
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ya! what she said!
actually, i dont care if they wanna read my email. might give them something to fap away to
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principessa
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 16:44 Post subject:
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/smack
Pregnant students' RIGHTS :p
I am developing a school-based, group intervention program for pregnant teens. Stats show that they and their kids fare a helluva lot better if the girls stay in school during pregnancy as well as after the birth. By law, schools cannot discriminate against them nor can they stop them from attending (thx, Title IX)
I just needed an official quote on that 
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 17:35 Post subject:
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Why would a pregnant's students rights vary from the rights of any other citizen?
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principessa
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 17:50 Post subject:
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Discrimination.
Some schools attempt to separate the pregnant students from the mainstream by placing them in special classes, limiting or forbidding activities, etc. Forcing a student to attend a special program because she is pregnant violates state and federal law.
However, should you choose to attend a special program offered by your school, any special program must have the same quality and selection of classes, qualifications for teachers, same availability and quality of textbooks, same quality of classrooms, and offer the same number of credits for classes as the standard program.
If you are in a separate program for parenting and pregnant students and you want to take an advanced class or a one that needs special facilities (like honors chemistry with a lab) and this class is not offered through your program, you must be allowed to take the class where it is offered even if it’s not through your program.
Schools cannot demand a note from the doctor in order for you to participate in activities/sports, etc. unless they ask the same of non-pregnant students.
Some schools offer no support and thereby discourage pregnant girls passively from continuing their education.
You have the RIGHT to have excused absences for health issues related to your pregnancy and childbirth. Your school cannot automatically fail or in anyway punish you for health related absences if you have a note from your doctor.
Your school must provide you with accommodations for any health issues related to your pregnancy, if they provide similar accommodations for sick students. For example, if you have morning sickness or need frequent access to a bathroom later in your pregnancy you should be able to have a permanent hall pass. Or you can have a longer pass time between classes if you’re having trouble moving quickly due to your pregnancy. If your doctor says so, your school must change your gym requirements so it’s safe for you during pregnancy.
If you are bedridden or recovering at home for an extended amount of time after childbirth, you have the RIGHT to have tutoring at home if this option is available to other students (like the football player who broke his leg, or a student recovering from surgery.)
You have the RIGHT to receive make-up assignments from your teachers to make-up time that you were out of school due to your pregnancy if make-up assignments are offered to any other students who miss a class.You have the RIGHT to return to your class after childbirth at the same academic standing or level.
Mothers and fathers cannot be treated differently from each other. For example, if your school won’t give you an excused absence for taking care of your sick kid, your school will negatively impact student mothers more than student fathers because mothers more often take care of their sick kids. Denying students excused absences for caring for their sick kids may violate federal law that says that women and men must be treated equally.
A teacher cannot decide against giving you a recommendation because you are pregnant or parenting.
A teacher cannot grade you any differently because you are pregnant or parenting.
A teacher must make the classroom a safe and comfortable space for you. A teacher must act to stop harassment and teasing from other students because you are pregnant. You cannot be treated any differently if you decide to have an abortion.
If your school offers health-care to other students, prenatal care must be also available to you.
Sorry this is long-winded, but figured I may as well promote awareness
edit: These are not my words, they are from a site called girlmom.com and THEY took them from ACLU's page about student rights.
Last edited by principessa on 10/19/03 - 18:55; edited 1 time in total
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principessa
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 17:53 Post subject:
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I wonder--I know a lot of you are still in h.s. or just out. Did your schools offer a special program for pregnant teens or those who are moms?
I am still in the process of finding out what is offered (if anything) down here in AR. Considering they still allow corporal punishment in this state (and wasn't I shocked to hear that, coming from NY!), I am assuming that they aren't progressive enough to see that supporting their pregnant students benefits everyone and not just the mothers-to-be.
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 18:07 Post subject:
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| principessa wrote: | Discrimination.
Some schools attempt to separate the pregnant students from the mainstream by placing them in special classes, limiting or forbidding activities, etc. Forcing a student to attend a special program because she is pregnant violates state and federal law.
However, should you choose to attend a special program offered by your school, any special program must have the same quality and selection of classes, qualifications for teachers, same availability and quality of textbooks, same quality of classrooms, and offer the same number of credits for classes as the standard program.
If you are in a separate program for parenting and pregnant students and you want to take an advanced class or a one that needs special facilities (like honors chemistry with a lab) and this class is not offered through your program, you must be allowed to take the class where it is offered even if it’s not through your program. |
Who pays for this? The pregnant girl's family, right?
| Quote: | | Schools cannot demand a note from the doctor in order for you to participate in activities/sports, etc. unless they ask the same of non-pregnant students. |
Why not? Pregnant women should not participate in most sports because of their condition. They should not run, be overexposed to stress, experience even minimal trauma to the torso, etc. Asking that a doctor evaluate their condition prior to participating in active sports not only reduces the school's liability, but is necessary for the girls' health.
| Quote: | | Some schools offer no support and thereby discourage pregnant girls passively from continuing their education. |
Support costs money...which the pregnant girls' families will provide...right?
| Quote: | | You have the RIGHT to have excused absences for health issues related to your pregnancy and childbirth. Your school cannot automatically fail or in anyway punish you for health related absences if you have a note from your doctor. |
A right according to whom? Granted I agree that a pregnant girl should be allowed absences for the health of her and her baby, it certainly isn't a right. At least I don't remember it being anywhere in the constitution.
| Quote: | | Your school must provide you with accommodations for any health issues related to your pregnancy, if they provide similar accommodations for sick students. For example, if you have morning sickness or need frequent access to a bathroom later in your pregnancy you should be able to have a permanent hall pass. Or you can have a longer pass time between classes if you’re having trouble moving quickly due to your pregnancy. If your doctor says so, your school must change your gym requirements so it’s safe for you during pregnancy. |
Must...or should? It was the girls actions that got her pregnant. Why must the school be responsible?
| Quote: | | If you are bedridden or recovering at home for an extended amount of time after childbirth, you have the RIGHT to have tutoring at home if this option is available to other students (like the football player who broke his leg, or a student recovering from surgery.) |
Again with the "rights". Who's coming up with all of these rights. I swear entitlement-based rights are constitently just popping up out of thin air. I have the RIGHT to have $10 million!!! Gimme!
| Quote: | | You have the RIGHT to receive make-up assignments from your teachers to make-up time that you were out of school due to your pregnancy if make-up assignments are offered to any other students who miss a class.You have the RIGHT to return to your class after childbirth at the same academic standing or level. |
Wow...more made up rights. While I agree that a girl should be given make-up assignments (I would think most schools would do this), she certainly shouldn't be given the same academic standing/level if she hasn't completed her work.
| Quote: | | Mothers and fathers cannot be treated differently from each other. For example, if your school won’t give you an excused absence for taking care of your sick kid, your school will negatively impact student mothers more than student fathers because mothers more often take care of their sick kids. Denying students excused absences for caring for their sick kids may violate federal law that says that women and men must be treated equally. |
There is no such federal law. Also, men and women are not equal.
| Quote: | | A teacher cannot decide against giving you a recommendation because you are pregnant or parenting. |
Why not. Recommendations are up to the teacher. I got a bad recommendation from a high school teacher because she didn't like me. Tough nuts.
| Quote: | | A teacher must make the classroom a safe and comfortable space for you. A teacher must act to stop harassment and teasing from other students because you are pregnant. You cannot be treated any differently if you decide to have an abortion. |
Teachers shouldn't allow students to harass eachother regardless of their situation in class, anyway. It's a place for learning. However, if a girl gets an abortion, you can't force people to accept that. Free speach...remember? (that's a real right).
| Quote: | | If your school offers health-care to other students, prenatal care must be also available to you. |
At the expense of the pregnant girls' families, right? They are provided with the same health care as the other students. Giving them additional care would be unequal.
In conclusion. Could someone just tell me who's ass all these made up rights are pulled from?
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 18:14 Post subject:
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I've also noticed that a lot of liberal "rights" cost money. What about my right not to pay for someone else's irresponsibility?
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principessa
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 18:22 Post subject:
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Gah, I will answer that point for point, but not right now..I'm on a raid atm :p
However, everything that I posted is from the ACLU...most of it is a RIGHT because if it would violate Title IX and the Persons with Disabilities Act where education is concerned...
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hitachi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1508
Location: Maryland
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 18:37 Post subject:
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| principessa wrote: |
I am still in the process of finding out what is offered (if anything) down here in AR. Considering they still allow corporal punishment in this state (and wasn't I shocked to hear that, coming from NY!), I am assuming that they aren't progressive enough to see that supporting their pregnant students benefits everyone and not just the mothers-to-be. |
haha...f**k off.
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The Guy On The Couch
Luke Warm
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 202
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 18:41 Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Teachers shouldn't allow students to harass eachother regardless of their situation in class, anyway. It's a place for learning. However, if a girl gets an abortion, you can't force people to accept that. Free speach...remember? (that's a real right). |
Harrassment and freespeech are 2 different things.
| Quote: | | Again with the "rights". Who's coming up with all of these rights. I swear entitlement-based rights are constitently just popping up out of thin air. I have the RIGHT to have $10 million!!! Gimme! |
you do have a right to have 10 mill.... earn it
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principessa
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 18:51 Post subject:
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Hitachi, I would rather pay school taxes and have a program for pregnant girls to help them finish their education and thereby gain more opportunities to do something with their lives than pay for them to sit on their asses with my other taxes and collect welfare.
If that was what the "f**k off" was about.
Guy on the Couch--LTNS
edit: because I just realized that what GotC was quoting wasn't from my post LOL That's what I get for trying to post while on CR :p
Last edited by principessa on 10/19/03 - 19:00; edited 1 time in total
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WheresNWS
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 19 Nov 2002
Posts: 6448
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 18:58 Post subject:
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| The Guy On The Couch wrote: | | you do have a right to have 10 mill.... earn it |
She wants to force people to give up their money. So do I. What's the difference?
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principessa
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 19:10 Post subject:
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Not my words LOL
They are FEDERAL rights that have been around since 1972 under Title IX and ..gah, unsure what year..when the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed.
It's the same rights that apply to SpEd kids--the school MUST ensure that you have the same opportunity to learn as any other student. That means that if you need to go to a special therapy or you need to be in special classes, the school district MUST, by law, either arrange that for you in your home district or PAY for it to be done elsewhere.
Quoting below:
CAN GIRLS BE KICKED OUT OF SCHOOL IF THEY GET PREGNANT?
No. Federal law prohibits schools from discriminating against pregnant students or students who are married or have children. So, if you are pregnant, school officials can't keep you from attending classes, graduation ceremonies, extracurricular activities or any other school activity except maybe a strenuous sport. Some schools have special classes for pregnant girls, but they cannot make you attend these if you would prefer to be in your regular classes.
"No person in the United States shall, on the basis of ****, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."
--Title IX, Education Amendments of 1972
From: http://archive.aclu.org/students/slequal.html
Copyright 1997, The American Civil Liberties Union
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Guest
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 19:28 Post subject:
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| principessa wrote: |
Sorry this is long-winded, but figured I may as well promote awareness
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All you did was fuel my cynicism.
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Sabathius
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2179
Location: San Angelo
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 19:33 Post subject:
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I don't care who knows about what i'm doing on the net. I doubt they are going to worry about me downloading hordes of c*****t movies. I don't use Kazaa, or I-Mesh for you tools out there. The only people they'll go after are the Child Molestors, the Kiddie Porners, the Terrorists, the druggies, and those that p**s off the RIAA.
Some of you might fit in those categories, but like I said, I don't care cuz I don't.
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principessa
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 19:33 Post subject:
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I'm sure it fueled a few cynics on this board LOL
The fact remains that the issue exists..it's just not gonna happen that a solution is found that makes all sides happy....those kinds of solutions are rare at any time
The Feds saw fit to protect the rights of all students by creating that law back in 72. That gave a green light to the ACLU to crusade for equal rights for disabled students <shrug> There's not a lot the opposition can do about it now...
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hitachi
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1508
Location: Maryland
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 19:50 Post subject:
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no i agree with some of the things you stated pregnant teens should have.
the f**k off was in reference to your view on corporal punishment.
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 19:54 Post subject:
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Couldn't we just pair up the hawt looking pregnant females with some rich dirty ole men???
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principessa
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 20:09 Post subject:
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| hitachi wrote: | no i agree with some of the things you stated pregnant teens should have.
the f**k off was in reference to your view on corporal punishment. |
Sorry, but if anyone has to hit my child, it had better be me! Here in AR, I am told, corporal punishment occurs when a parent won't or can't pick up their child to take them home after they have gotten in certain kinds of trouble.
The parents just say, go ahead, whoop him/her..what kind of shit is that? What kind of parents are those? f**k that.
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 20:13 Post subject:
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our federal governement is so f*****g out of control its funny, every part of it has crossed the bounderys it had by so much no one even remembers what they were anymore.. people say we didnt have a socialist revolution when the economy crashed in 1929 I tend to disagree its just a slow socialist revolution.
Why cant a teacher not write a recomendation? thats retarded its part of your character that you got knocked up and had a kid, thats like saying the teacher cant not write you one cause your a druggy and thats a disease in this sick and twisted world instead of just a weakness of character.
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Guest
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 20:15 Post subject:
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| principessa wrote: | | hitachi wrote: | no i agree with some of the things you stated pregnant teens should have.
the f**k off was in reference to your view on corporal punishment. |
Sorry, but if anyone has to hit my child, it had better be me! Here in AR, I am told, corporal punishment occurs when a parent won't or can't pick up their child to take them home after they have gotten in certain kinds of trouble.
The parents just say, go ahead, whoop him/her..what kind of shit is that? What kind of parents are those? f**k that. |
They should issue baseball bats to teachers in NYC. And thats just to deal with the little ones. Bulletproof vests and semi-auto 12 guages to deal with the older ones.
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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principessa
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 20:24 Post subject:
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LOL
Doc, my first clue that the camp is a plot to suck money from rich parents is the word "CURE"....
Just like being immersed in a religious zealot's CURE for homosexuality...bogus.
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 20:29 Post subject:
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But what about my first idea? 
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principessa
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3149
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 20:36 Post subject:
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| Docter wrote: | | But what about my first idea? |
/veto 
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 20:38 Post subject:
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Trebel
Luke Warm
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 213
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 20:42 Post subject:
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Ok first of all... the woman had the choice to have **** (rape excluded) and she should suffer the consequences. I don't want my tax dollars wasted on "pregnant teen mother" programs, all because she wouldn't waster her $5 on condoms. If she wants a baby then thats fine to, thats her choice. But she can go through school same as everyone else. And also since when is being pregnant a disability?? Its not like she was maimed, or born with a defect, she made a CHOICE to have **** and have a baby. If she made that choice, she can live with it, cuz the f**k if I am going to pay tax dollars for her wrong choice.
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 10/19/03 - 20:46 Post subject:
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you should know trebel that people arent responsible for the decisions they make its our fault that they are dumb and we should pay for that.
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