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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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 Posted: 04/14/03 - 19:16 Post subject: Car problem
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Anybody know about engines? My wife's Honda Prelude, 3 1/2 years old, 85k miles, is suddenly losing about a quart of oil every 500 miles. She's always changed it every 3500 miles or so, drives a lot but not too hard. There's no obvious oil leak - no oil on the engine, none on the garage floor. No blue smoke - exhaust looks clean.
The dealership basically said (without doing much other than seeing how much oil it lost) "it's either valves or rings, and it'll cost you $300-400 to find out which, and the answer (get a new engine) is the same either way". New engine is like $3500. Does that sound like an accurate diagnosis? Or any thoughts of other things to try? 85k doesn't seem like that much for a Honda, and wouldn't it be obviously burning oil if it was valves or rings?
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Sutto
Sir Postalot
Joined: 18 Oct 2002
Posts: 1100
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Posted: 04/14/03 - 19:37 Post subject:
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Honda's are known to guzzle oil a bit faster than other cars... saturns also have this problem, its automatic isn't it?
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Zuldane
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4057
Location: At sea.
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Posted: 04/14/03 - 19:45 Post subject:
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an automatic prelude would be h**o
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the flower princess
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 986
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Posted: 04/14/03 - 19:48 Post subject:
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Saturns define h**o.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 04/14/03 - 19:50 Post subject:
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Heh, no it's a standard. My car's an automatic, so I guess I'm the h**o 
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the flower princess
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 986
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Posted: 04/14/03 - 19:52 Post subject:
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No, a saturn is much more h**o.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 04/14/03 - 20:01 Post subject:
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85k not alot for a Honda? It could be, they're like any other car.
*shrug* weird how some of you think they're bulletproof or something.
Your Prelude is a piece, enjoy the repair bill 
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Zapper
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1512
Location: Connecticut
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Posted: 04/14/03 - 20:11 Post subject:
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What's cheaper adding a quart of oil every 500 miles or a new engine?
lets say you drive it another 100,000 miles
100,000/ 500 = 200 quarts of oil
1 quart = $4 ?
200 x 4 = $800
New engine = $3,500 ?
Just add oil every 500 miles much cheaper in the long run. I didn't include your 3,500 oil changes which you would do anyway and would add that quart of oil ayway. Maybe about 28 quarts of oil less. So maybe $100 less than what I said above.
That is if as you said there is no negative effect on the car.
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Paden
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 9362
Location: North CAROLINA!
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Posted: 04/14/03 - 20:18 Post subject:
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hmm i'll ask my auto tech teacher he knows his cars! he owns Honda as well.
he also owns 2 1964 nova's one is drag one is street
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compusmack
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 6354
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Posted: 04/14/03 - 21:39 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | 85k not alot for a Honda? It could be, they're like any other car.
*shrug* weird how some of you think they're bulletproof or something.
Your Prelude is a piece, enjoy the repair bill |
haha yeah no shit.
I'm so sick of you f*****s saying "foreign cars are better quality" and all the other homosexual b******t you're led to believe.
BUY AMERICAN, they are as good or better and they HELP YOUR COUNTRY'S ECONOMY.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 09:08 Post subject:
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Bah, I said "I'm going to buy American and help my country's economy" a few cars ago. Within 50,000 miles the clutch cable had snapped 3 times (how often do you hear of that happening), the brake calipers had frozen twice and wrecked the rotors, the radiator had to be replaced, the handbrake had jammed, blew a head gasket, and the transmission made funky sounds in anything but fourth gear. I've never had as much problems with any of my European cars, although I did have a transmission go on a Nissan.
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Kaladam
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1110
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 09:11 Post subject:
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I like my German Mercedes. Even though they burned my people, they still make a hell of a car.
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eqchanter
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 1543
Location: tennessee
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 09:21 Post subject:
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| Zapper wrote: | What's cheaper adding a quart of oil every 500 miles or a new engine?
lets say you drive it another 100,000 miles
100,000/ 500 = 200 quarts of oil
1 quart = $4 ?
200 x 4 = $800
New engine = $3,500 ?
Just add oil every 500 miles much cheaper in the long run. I didn't include your 3,500 oil changes which you would do anyway and would add that quart of oil ayway. Maybe about 28 quarts of oil less. So maybe $100 less than what I said above.
That is if as you said there is no negative effect on the car. |
it could get worse as time goes on. plus its a pain to go to the store that often to get oil. or keep that much around.
if you think about it 1 qt every 500 miles wouldnt be that noticeable in your exaust. just curious but what do you do to put 85k miles i 3.5 years.
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Clevinger
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3765
Location: Austin
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 09:27 Post subject:
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most american cars suck
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scoresia
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1500
Location: Florida
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 09:28 Post subject:
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Unfortunately once a car starts burning off oil, it's an indication that it's time for an overhaul. Worn Piston rings, lifters, basically most internal parts that take friction. Some people think 85k is not alot of miles, that depends on how you drive the car. You mentioned it's manual if you do alot of city driving then the 85k miles of stop and go are considered hard miles. You said your wife drives it, is she the type to hotrod (I know I am, my husband hates it)? That could be another reason.
$3,500 sounds a little bit steep, that must be a dealership price. Ask your friends and see if they know a reliable mechanic, you may be able to get it done for less. Don't just pick a mechanic outta the phone book, get someone you or a friend knows.
Also, what kind of oil you putting in it? You may want to try
1) Engine Treatment - it's added to your oil to make it thicker and burn off less
2) Next oil change, use a thicker oil (ie. SAE 30 ) Gastrol also makes a special oil for higher milage cars, you may want to look into that.
Both of those are temporary fixes. Start saving your money for the overhaul or trade it in for a new car. Book value on that car may not be more than $3,000 or $4,000. Consider trading it in before the engine goes completely.
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Akronn
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8752
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 09:54 Post subject:
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| scoresia wrote: | | $3,500 sounds a little bit steep, that must be a dealership price. Ask your friends and see if they know a reliable mechanic, you may be able to get it done for less. Don't just pick a mechanic outta the phone book, get someone you or a friend knows. |
Now see, that's something alot of people don't consider. Hondas cost alot more to repair (good god it's not even funny here in Detroit). I can only think of a few decent garages outside of dealerships...
(btw, my own bad experience was with a Prelude. Go figure)
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scoresia
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1500
Location: Florida
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 10:07 Post subject:
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Overhaul friend's 93 Honda Accord = $2,300
Overhaul another friend's 91 Prelude = $2,500
Overhaul 94 Mazda MX3 = $2,400 (this one was mine)
I am guessing $2,900-$3,100 is about what he should pay for the overhaul. Some people think Honda's are imported. They used to be. Honda now has a factory somewhere in illinois I beleive(See Below Edit). It has gotten ALOT easier to get foreign parts at a reasonable price in the past few years. Just go to Discount Auto parts, Pep Boys, Auto Zone, Napa Auto parts, Bennet Auto Supply ( I dunno if these exist in your area)
Correction, Honda has plants in Ohio and Canada with a new one being built in Alabama.
http://www.europeanhonda.demon.nl/honda_new_plant.htm
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Sabathius
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2179
Location: San Angelo
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 11:44 Post subject:
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It's almost definitely the Gasket, not that expensive. My sister had a prelude and I changed it for her. It's pretty damned easy to do, but then I know cars.
The mechanic is correct, he's just trying to charge and arm and a leg for some easy shit.
Go to a smaller, personally owned garage. Call around and ask what it would cost to get the oil gasket replaced.
Or drive to Texas, San Angelo to be precise, and i'll change it for free. Well, a steak dinner at Outback will work.
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Zuldane
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4057
Location: At sea.
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 11:51 Post subject:
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? 
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scoresia
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1500
Location: Florida
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 11:54 Post subject:
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| Sabathius wrote: | It's almost definitely the Gasket, not that expensive. My sister had a prelude and I changed it for her. It's pretty damned easy to do, but then I know cars.
The mechanic is correct, he's just trying to charge and arm and a leg for some easy shit.
Go to a smaller, personally owned garage. Call around and ask what it would cost to get the oil gasket replaced.
Or drive to Texas, San Angelo to be precise, and i'll change it for free. Well, a steak dinner at Outback will work. |
Hun, it's not leaking, it's burning off. If it was the gasket it would be leaking. Defenitely NOT the gasket. Just outta curiosity, what gasket you talking about? Valve Cover Gaskets? Rear Seal, Main Seal?
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Kikk
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 695
Location: Jacksonville, NC
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 12:06 Post subject:
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295,700 miles on my 89 F150 and the only thing I have had to ever replace (escept normal wear and tear like tires/breaks and such) is a water pump.
This summer I think I will replace my clutch just for the hell of it because-- well f**k why aint it broke yet lol.
Not all American made cars suck.
Anyway my wifes car burns oil like that and it is really nothing to worry about as long as you keep it checked. If it don't smoke or leak try using a higher viscosity oil and see if that helps.
And yeah what scor said--if it ain't leakin its not a gasket. If ANY of your gaskets were leaking you would have little dots of oil all over your driveway and most likely your car would smoke from inside the engine (if valve cover) because when the engine got hot it would burn it off. Your seals are prolly worn and little droplets of oil are sneaking past to get burned up in the combustion of the engine. You could check your local auto parts store for some seal and ring conditioner and see if that helps.
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scoresia
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1500
Location: Florida
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 12:10 Post subject:
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| scoresia wrote: | Also, what kind of oil you putting in it? You may want to try
1) Engine Treatment - it's added to your oil to make it thicker and burn off less
2) Next oil change, use a thicker oil (ie. SAE 30 ) Gastrol also makes a special oil for higher milage cars, you may want to look into that.
Both of those are temporary fixes. |
| Kikk wrote: | | Anyway my wifes car burns oil like that and it is really nothing to worry about as long as you keep it checked. If it don't smoke or leak try using a higher viscosity oil and see if that helps. |
Yeah, what I said
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 12:31 Post subject:
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Hmm ok thanks for the advice. I see there's a place in town that advertizes that they rebuild Honda engines, so I'm going to check with them.
I'm not sure if she's hard on cars or not. She's in sales and uses it for work, so that's why it has so many miles, but they're mostly highway. She drive fastish (85 usually), but babies the hell out of it, changes the oil and gets it serviced compulsively.
I'm surprised there's not an emission test that would see if there's components of burned oil in the exhaust gas. I'm still sort of dubious, because I can't see any exhaust at all - it looks totally clean to the eye.
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Abiwabi
Luke Warm
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 395
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 12:56 Post subject:
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Some easy things to check if it is burning oil or "disappearing".
First check the spark plugs =p If there is oil on the electrode or threads you are experiencing blow by which points to bad piston rings . Secondly change/check your own oil. See if there is coolant or any metal shavings in the oil or oil pan. If there is, bearing go bye bye and it's time for rebuild =/ If there is stuff that looks kinda milky in your oil means coolant is getting into your oil some how somewhere. Possible points of entry are head gasket/s or possibly intake manifold if you have a coolant line running through there like a bunch of vehicles do =)
To recap,
1. Check spark plugs.
2. Check oil for coolant or metal shavings.
3. Check coolant for milkshake consistency, take off radiator cap WHEN ENGINE IS COOL IE NOT BEEN RUN. Just look under the cap for milky foamy stuff =)
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scoresia
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1500
Location: Florida
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 13:08 Post subject:
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Good Idea Abiwabi,
The Spark plugs I agree.
however, according to his post I am assuming the oils is changed frequently and in that case, they would have discovered it before. I am assuming this has been going on for a while, if it has then they person changing the oil "should" have noticed wether there is coolant in it. I say "should" cause if you go to some place like Jiffy lube they are not so bright. Still, can't hurt to look.
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Kikk
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 695
Location: Jacksonville, NC
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 13:30 Post subject:
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dude 85k is not a lot of miles lol. I put damn near 50k a year on my car, truck and wifes car combined.
Yeah abi gave good advice as well and that is easy enough to check yourself. I wouldn't think a cracked head gasket though either cause that woulda been noticed.
If worse comes to worse and you think you are taking too many chances running low on oil put something like slick 50 to help protect it just in case. Slick 50 might actually increase the amount of oil burning off though so it is only really worth it if you wait so long that you have to put three or four quarts of oil in at a time.
I tried some of that high milage oil and let me tell you it does make a difference. I don't burn oil in my truck but every now and then you can hear the lifters a tad. Putting in that oil stopped noise that I didn't even know I had lol. When I first put it in I had to make sure my truck was still running every time I stopped at a light for the first day or so because it was so quite.
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scoresia
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1500
Location: Florida
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 14:47 Post subject:
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Kikk,
What I meant was....
85k miles driven HARD and what I mean by "hard" is Stop and go Traffic, hard accelleration etc.... That is alot of hard miles on an engine. Wear and tear happens much faster under those circumstances. just like if you live on flat terrain and drive 9 miles a day and someone else lives in the mountains and drives 9 miles a day. The car driving the mountains has more work to do, therefore will have more wear and tear.
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Kikk
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 695
Location: Jacksonville, NC
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 14:51 Post subject:
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I was directing that at Sin.
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scoresia
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1500
Location: Florida
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 15:03 Post subject:
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oh, my bad
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Sabathius
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2179
Location: San Angelo
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Posted: 04/15/03 - 16:04 Post subject:
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lol, oh, didn't read closely enough
Yeah, it's not the gasket.
kekekeke
Actually if it's just using more oil than it used to, then it could one of two things.
1. If it was a dramatic, or sudden shift, then it's probably what the mechanic was saying. I've never really experienced this, though, so I can't pinpoint it for you. If it is something wrong with the engine (valves or rings), it's unlikely the whole engine needs to be replaced. The dealer is still trying to take your money. Take it to a smaller garage, one that is more desperate for customers. The dealership makes it's money off selling the cars, not repairing them. Thats why the guy wants you to buy a whole new engine. The smaller garage will most likely take care of you because they need customers to return, as auto repair is the only source of income.
2. If it was rather gradual, then it's natural. My truck has to have a can about a can a week. Engines degrade and erode, even with oil in them. The pistons will start to change the shape of the piston shaft. The valves will start to decay. It's just wear and tear. This wear and tear causes the engine to run less efficiently, and thus use more oil.
Sorry I wasn't clear earlier. I didn't read all the paragraph.
EDIT:spellin
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