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 Posted: 10/21/04 - 23:05 Post subject: Bush cant say SHIT about healthcare
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Kerry’s plan would build on the existing employer-based health care system by offering tax breaks to businesses to offer health care. The Democrat would open up the federal employee health benefits program to all Americans, enabling them to the same kind of coverage that members of Congress get. The proposal also would put in place a drug prescription plan that permits Medicare to negotiate better drug prices for senior citizens.
Bushes plan?
The Bush campaign says limiting medical malpractice awards could save $60 billion to $108 billion annually in health care costs. The Kerry campaign rejects Bush’s numbers and favors limits on medical malpractice premium increases, sanctions for frivolous lawsuits, and nonbinding mediation in all states.
Kerry wants to actually DO SOMETHING
Bush wants to take away your right to sue for more than a mere pittance no matter how badly the doctor f***s you up
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Melee
Luke Warm
Joined: 24 Mar 2003
Posts: 185
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Posted: 10/21/04 - 23:29 Post subject:
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I wonder what he would spend that $60-$108 billion on? Our trillion dollar wars maybe? I guess at least he wouldn't be taking it from our education programs anymore.
I also thought wars were suppose to create an economic boost. Like WWI and WWII. Wheres the boost? My gas still costs 2.04 per gallon, .. wtf?
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 02:17 Post subject:
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| Melee wrote: | I wonder what he would spend that $60-$108 billion on? Our trillion dollar wars maybe? I guess at least he wouldn't be taking it from our education programs anymore.
I also thought wars were suppose to create an economic boost. Like WWI and WWII. Wheres the boost? My gas still costs 2.04 per gallon, .. wtf? |
Bush sucks. 
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 02:45 Post subject:
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Uh...malpractice awards are the reason for high health care costs (Thanks John Edwards!). Do you know who this year's biggest political contributors are? Lawyers. They gave $132.4 million dollars so far this year. 3/4 of that went to Democrats. The total lawyer-contribution to Democrats is over 7 times greater than oil-related companies', like Halliburton (which the Kerry campaign nonsensically mentions every day), donations to Republicans. So naturally Kerry doesn't want to stop the source of high health care costs like Bush does. Instead he wants to force it out of the hands of hard-working doctors and into the hands of the lawyer-owned Democratic party.
On a side note, have you ever noticed how emergency rooms are generally populated by the lower echelon of our society? I guess that's why the left is so obsessed with health care.
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Brael
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2122
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 03:07 Post subject:
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Ok, I'm not particularly smart when it comes to these sorts of things, but an economic boost from a war (while the war is going on) is caused from increased jobs to make weapons and to fill job spots while people are drafted correct? If you're in a conflict which doesn't require an increased stockpile of weaponry or a draft there wouldn't be an economic boost from fighting? Post war would be rebuilding and until the area being rebuilt is stable the extra jobs from that would be more limited. Atleast this is how I'm thinking of it at 3am
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Tolanin
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3551
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 05:32 Post subject:
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| Brael wrote: | | Ok, I'm not particularly smart when it comes to these sorts of things, but an economic boost from a war (while the war is going on) is caused from increased jobs to make weapons and to fill job spots while people are drafted correct? If you're in a conflict which doesn't require an increased stockpile of weaponry or a draft there wouldn't be an economic boost from fighting? Post war would be rebuilding and until the area being rebuilt is stable the extra jobs from that would be more limited. Atleast this is how I'm thinking of it at 3am |
correct to an extent, while smaller wars dont require the mass mobilization of industry they do still require many materials, we don't for example keep stockpiles of bullets to the extent they are needed or spare parts for planes... production is increased in war, if it was not war would not cost any more money than peacetime. Stockpiles may be able to cover one war but they must be replaced quickly so rediness is not reduced.
And to the people who want health care, why do you think our useless government should pay for you to extend your useless lives any longer, fear of death is a weakness.. the desire to live on into old age at the expense of your nation is a parasitic desire, should our country support parasites to itself? The next time a mosquito bites you remember that though it is taking your blood and serving no purpose to you you should not only allow it to live but give it whatever aid you can.
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xeqer
Luke Warm
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 348
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 08:32 Post subject:
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Why does Bush need to do a thing about healthcare?
The entire Clinton platform was based on revamping healthcare.
They had 8 years, it should be perfect by now.
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Kurel
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1877
Location: Cali
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 09:08 Post subject:
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| Tolanin wrote: | | Brael wrote: | | Ok, I'm not particularly smart when it comes to these sorts of things, but an economic boost from a war (while the war is going on) is caused from increased jobs to make weapons and to fill job spots while people are drafted correct? If you're in a conflict which doesn't require an increased stockpile of weaponry or a draft there wouldn't be an economic boost from fighting? Post war would be rebuilding and until the area being rebuilt is stable the extra jobs from that would be more limited. Atleast this is how I'm thinking of it at 3am |
correct to an extent, while smaller wars dont require the mass mobilization of industry they do still require many materials, we don't for example keep stockpiles of bullets to the extent they are needed or spare parts for planes... production is increased in war, if it was not war would not cost any more money than peacetime. Stockpiles may be able to cover one war but they must be replaced quickly so rediness is not reduced.
And to the people who want health care, why do you think our useless government should pay for you to extend your useless lives any longer, fear of death is a weakness.. the desire to live on into old age at the expense of your nation is a parasitic desire, should our country support parasites to itself? The next time a mosquito bites you remember that though it is taking your blood and serving no purpose to you you should not only allow it to live but give it whatever aid you can. |
The defense industry is currently booming (Look at Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon, and Boeing on the stock exchange). There's a strong tie between Defense stock and other stocks on the market. When Defense does well, those employee's are paid big $$ and in turn spend their money on other goods (usually electronics), which in turn stimulats the ecnomy even further.
This isn't an instant effect mind you, and usually lags behind the Defense Industry's boom by 12-18 months.
History has shown that after every war, the economy does really well. It's not apparent really during the war, but usually shortly after the conflict ends.
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 11:26 Post subject:
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health care is an extremely difficult issue to "solve". Neither candidate has a very good plan.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 12:28 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | | health care is an extremely difficult issue to "solve". Neither candidate has a very good plan. |
It isn't an issue that needs "solving". Leftists are just confusing rights and priviledges again.
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 12:40 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: | | Frehya wrote: | | health care is an extremely difficult issue to "solve". Neither candidate has a very good plan. |
It isn't an issue that needs "solving". Leftists are just confusing rights and priviledges again. |
That is your opinion. We still end up paying for all of the uninsured people that can't pay their medical bills one way or another, its an "i$$ue for us all.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 12:42 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | Frehya wrote: | | health care is an extremely difficult issue to "solve". Neither candidate has a very good plan. |
It isn't an issue that needs "solving". Leftists are just confusing rights and priviledges again. |
That is your opinion. We still end up paying for all of the uninsured people that can't pay their medical bills one way or another, its an "i$$ue for us all. |
Just don't treat them. Doctors have already rewritten the hippocratic oath to allow abortion and euthenasia, so why not?
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 12:46 Post subject:
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Here's my points about health care. BTW, I just happened to be looking at my health insurance statement today. My health insurance (family plan, not bad, not particularly good) costs $10,000/year (mostly but not all paid by my company). That strikes me as a hell of a lot of money.
- having America's health care system primarily adminstered through workplaces is an absurd, inefficient anachronism. Companies are in the business of producing goods and services for their customers; why should every company in the country be forced to dilute their focus by also being a healthcare administrator? That's illogical and inefficient, plus it makes a meaningless distinction between those who work for large companies, and those who are unemployed or self-employed. It also limits the free market by forcing employees to a single source of insurance: their employer. I freely buy my car insurance and house insurance from an insurance agency, why not my health insurance?
- Health insurance in this country is vastly overused. If insurance is used to pay routine (as opposed to exceptional) costs, it ceases to be insurance. People feel they need health insurance so they can pay for routine doctor's visits and prescriptions, but virtually everyone has to get a checkup, or some antibiotics or whatever once in a while. Insurance only works when it INCREASES most people's costs in order to protect the minority from catastrophic costs (e.g. insurance against your house buring down). There is no way insurance can DECREASE costs for everyone. All it does on average is add additional costs for administration and profits. Running every $50 prescription through insurance companies generates vast amounts of costs for useless paper pushing. Insurance deductibles need to be far higher.
- Insurance is part of the problem. Having all medical bills payed by insurance leads people to insist on medical care that's not truly needed, driving up prices for care. If it weren't "free" (payed for by insurance), and if people didn't feel they were entitled to it because they were paying such high health care premiums, they'd consider whether they could afford the care they were demanding.
- we need to have some form of guaranteed health care, as well as some form of health care rationing. I think you do have to have some minimum level of care people can get regardless of ability to pay; you can't have poor people dying from easily curable diseases. Most people would see that as inhumane, and wouldn't stand for it. On the other hand, keeping people healthy is the sort of endeavor where you can pay exponentially increasing costs for only marginal improvements, or chance of improvement, as you use more and more experimental treatments. While it sounds callous, expensive, high tech procedures should be reserved for those who can pay for them. You don't get to have any house or car that you desire, and you can't be allowed to have any health procedure you desire. It would be nice, but since there is no limit on the amount of money that could be spent, it's not a sustainable proposition.
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Goraz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 3736
Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 13:23 Post subject:
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You do know kerrys healthcare plan will put the nation in trillions of dollars in debt. right?
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 13:41 Post subject:
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| Goraz wrote: | | You do know kerrys healthcare plan will put the nation in trillions of dollars in debt. right? |
Don't say it, Prove it
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goatface
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1354
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 14:07 Post subject:
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from what i read here and there
kerry plans will never come to light
there are several "if" written into it
where the states have to pick up other plans and pay
for a bunch of programs
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Mugaaz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3576
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 14:07 Post subject:
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| Silvermouse wrote: | | Goraz wrote: | | You do know kerrys healthcare plan will put the nation in trillions of dollars in debt. right? |
Don't say it, Prove it |
If it were so easy to prove there wouldn't be a presidential election.
We'd have people take a test. The one who scores highest wins.
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 18:43 Post subject:
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| Confused wrote: | | Frehya wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | Frehya wrote: | | health care is an extremely difficult issue to "solve". Neither candidate has a very good plan. |
It isn't an issue that needs "solving". Leftists are just confusing rights and priviledges again. |
That is your opinion. We still end up paying for all of the uninsured people that can't pay their medical bills one way or another, its an "i$$ue for us all. |
Just don't treat them. Doctors have already rewritten the hippocratic oath to allow abortion and euthenasia, so why not? |
uh huh...but lets talk about reality here.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 18:49 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | Frehya wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | Frehya wrote: | | health care is an extremely difficult issue to "solve". Neither candidate has a very good plan. |
It isn't an issue that needs "solving". Leftists are just confusing rights and priviledges again. |
That is your opinion. We still end up paying for all of the uninsured people that can't pay their medical bills one way or another, its an "i$$ue for us all. |
Just don't treat them. Doctors have already rewritten the hippocratic oath to allow abortion and euthenasia, so why not? |
uh huh...but lets talk about reality here. |
What's unrealistic? The medical profession decided to ethically allow doctors to actively kill people, so what's wrong with just allowing them to do nothing to help someone? Sounds less drastic than what has already been done.
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lotek
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1598
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Posted: 10/22/04 - 23:57 Post subject:
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government cant do shit. health care is a service, just like an oil change and should be treated as such.
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Guest
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Posted: 10/23/04 - 00:03 Post subject:
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Oil changes are affordable and easily done.
Health care is astronomically expensive.
Your analogy is flawed and you are the weakest link.
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pyrgomache
Sir Postalot
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 1075
Location: Here
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Posted: 10/23/04 - 00:05 Post subject:
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| Jack Crow wrote: | Oil changes are affordable and easily done.
Health care is astronomically expensive.
Your analogy is flawed and you are the weakest link. |
Health care is only expensive for the dumbshits who see the doctor every time they get a headache.
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Guest
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Posted: 10/23/04 - 00:05 Post subject:
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| pyrgomache wrote: | | Jack Crow wrote: | Oil changes are affordable and easily done.
Health care is astronomically expensive.
Your analogy is flawed and you are the weakest link. |
Health care is only expensive for the dumbshits who see the doctor every time they get a headache. |
rofl
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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 10/23/04 - 00:06 Post subject:
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| Jack Crow wrote: | Oil changes are affordable and easily done.
Health care is astronomically expensive.
Your analogy is flawed and you are the weakest link. |
Get a better job. No jobs available? Start something on your own.
That's very simplified but the point stands; you can decide what happens in your life in America. It's the best country for a reason.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 10/23/04 - 00:07 Post subject:
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| Jack Crow wrote: | Oil changes are affordable and easily done.
Health care is astronomically expensive.
Your analogy is flawed and you are the weakest link. |
Why is health care so expensive? Oh yeah...
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Guest
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Posted: 10/23/04 - 00:09 Post subject:
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Dude post a bigger picture next time.
Scrabler youre a 16 year old racist child you know nothing of the real world yet.
Confused you are confusing the issue.
And that issue is Bush's contribution to healthcare would be to remove patients rights for adequate just compensation even in the event of catastrophic malpractice while Kerries plan actually DOES SOMETHING to help more people get covered.
Oh well blather on...its friday night im going out
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 10/23/04 - 00:13 Post subject:
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| Jack Crow wrote: | | Dude post a bigger picture next time. |
John Edwards made $50 for every pixel in that image by suing good doctors for illigitimate reasons. Every time a poor person in North Carolina goes to the doctor, they have to pay John Edwards.
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Scrabler
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2660
Location: Mobile, AL
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Posted: 10/23/04 - 00:18 Post subject:
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| Jack Crow wrote: | Dude post a bigger picture next time.
Scrabler youre a 16 year old racist child you know nothing of the real world yet.
Confused you are confusing the issue.
And that issue is Bush's contribution to healthcare would be to remove patients rights for adequate just compensation even in the event of catastrophic malpractice while Kerries plan actually DOES SOMETHING to help more people get covered.
Oh well blather on...its friday night im going out |
So the USA isn't the land of opportunity?
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 10/23/04 - 00:22 Post subject:
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| Scrabler wrote: | | Jack Crow wrote: | Dude post a bigger picture next time.
Scrabler youre a 16 year old racist child you know nothing of the real world yet.
Confused you are confusing the issue.
And that issue is Bush's contribution to healthcare would be to remove patients rights for adequate just compensation even in the event of catastrophic malpractice while Kerries plan actually DOES SOMETHING to help more people get covered.
Oh well blather on...its friday night im going out |
So the USA isn't the land of opportunity? |
There are two America's and Americans can't make it...except for John Edward's whose father was a poor miner.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 10/23/04 - 01:20 Post subject:
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lol seriously
bush can't say SHIT
and u should know
f**k off wtf go work in a nursery
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