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Renork
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 6282
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 Posted: 05/13/04 - 23:19 Post subject: Berg execution was a FAKE - for the love of god read this
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First off, I DID NOT write this, just found it and thought it was interesting. You make up your minds.
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Writen by mike27 of genmay
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First of all, I know this is largely Pit material, but I feel that news of this caliber deserves the increased exposure of the main forum. Please keep replies intelligent, honest, topical, and free of slander against me. Debate the topic, not the person who brought it up.
Sources for all my facts can be found at the bottom, they are labeled according to subject.
That having been said...
Many of you might remember that I started a thread on the day the video was released noting how "convenient" it was that the tape had come out, just as the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal was in full swing. Not only did this take the abuse scandal off of headlines, but it swayed public opinion back against "those f*****g Iraqis".
Evidence
1) Most people replied by asserting that the execution occured as retribution to the abuse photos that had surfaced, but you have to ask yourself - do these terrorists, who are clearly capable of brainwashing people to the point where they are willing to kill and be killed for their beliefs, really have no concept of political tact? Here they are, the whole world screaming at the US for hypocrisy and injustice over these pictures, and they perform and publish this execution right in the heat of the scandal. In other words, these masters of brainwashing and spin and deception release a video of a despicable act just as the US, their sworn enemy, is being globally grilled. Does this make sense to you?
2) Second, I wonder what the standard issue chair is at Abu Ghraib prison?
*cough*
3) Is it not interesting that the wall colour at Abu Ghraib prison is identical to that of the video?
4) Is it not also interesting that Berg is wearing the same orange jumpsuit worn by prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison? Sure, you say, perhaps he was kidnapped directly from the prison (as stupid as this sounds, anyway) - but then can you please explain (7)?
5) Is it also not interesting that the timecodes in the video jump back and forth?
6) Is it also not interesting that Berg did not exhibit any of the convulsions that typically accompany decapitation? http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/uac/iacuc/rodents/avma.htm I am suggesting here that Berg was already dead when the decapitation occured (which accounts for 5). Before you go calling me crazy, please review the evidence; why did he not exhibit the convulsions that go hand in hand with decapitation (especially such an extended one)?
7) Is it not curious that the US denies contact with Berg, and yet his friends and family insist that he told them he was being held by the US? Huh? Why?
 Another tape oddity - the men SPEAK RUSSIAN for several seconds. Not only that, but they speak Arabic with Russian accents. That's right, in the final seconds of the tape, one of the men speaks in Russian. Those here who understand russian (and have the stomach to view that final seconds of the video) can verify this. Those who speak Arabic will be able to verify that these men speak Arabic in Russian accents.
9) Finally (the physical evidence that will convince you in case you already aren't)...
You will notice, in watching the video, that 6 times, a gold ring flashes on the hand of the executioner. What is the problem? Islam completely and utterly forbids men to wear gold rings. This fanatical muslim, willing to kill in a gutwrenching manner, and be killed for his beliefs, is violating one of the clear prohibitions of his religion? Really? DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?
Conclusion
As many has suspected, but have not had the time to build a solid case for, the execution of Nick Berg was performed by coalition interests (most likely independent Russian mercenaries) in order to dwarf the abuse pictures and sway public opinion back against the Iraqis and in support of the war by taking advantage of the emotional reaction we all experience when hearing of such an despicable act. The poor production quality (all the "curiosities" I have pointed out) of this video can be attributed to the haste in which it was made after the order was given to distract the public from the abuse scandal, and is in line with my conclusion.
Again, before you attack my conclusion, attack my evidence. No matter how crazy you think this sounds, examine the evidence objectively and please try to deny a single thing I have said. If you cannot deny my evidence, you logically cannot deny my conclusion. Make your replies free of subjective opinions and ad hominem attacks or I will not reply to them.
Sources:
Chair, wall, timecode, and :
http://www.libertyforum.org/showfla...=-1#Post1469025
http://www.news24houston.com/conten...D=28906&SecID=2
Berg was in US custody:
http://www........./2004/WORLD/meast...ends/index.html
(you'll have to copy & paste this one since genmay blocks cnn links as you know)
Gold rings forbidden by Islam:
http://www.khilafah.com/home/catego...ID=9529&TagID=2
http://www.google.com/search?q=gold...=utf-8&oe=utf-8
The execution video can be seen here (warning, extremely graphic): http://temp.eyecannon.com/iraq2vediom.wmv
PS: In other news, the video that the US used to incriminate Bin Laden in masterminding the 9/11 attacks was a fake. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html Judge for yourself. I will be doing another post on this once I gather more information. Once you have made up your mind, please ask yourself why the government would want to fake Bin Laden's guilt, which apparently justified the entire Afghanistan war (where an oil pipeline is now being built, which the Taliban had refused to allow).[img][/img][img][/img]
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 23:26 Post subject: Re: Berg execution was a FAKE - for the love of god read thi
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True no muslim men has the right to wear any gold around finger only women.
wow...
edit: removed quote -compu
(Is it really necessary to quote that giant text when it's in the post above and only you have responded to the thread?)
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Renork
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 6282
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 23:28 Post subject:
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could you imagine what would happen if it came out with undeniable evidence that the govt faked this?
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 23:28 Post subject:
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Also the wall oclors like you say make this strange for sure..cause if I would have captured an american in irak with thousands of american around...I would have hidden myself in a mud hole lol.
Looks like we wil lnever know the real true...nothing new.
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Renork
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 6282
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 23:29 Post subject:
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I didnt say, I put at the top that I didnt write it :-p
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Yabden
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
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Location: Ohio
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 23:31 Post subject:
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good read
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 23:33 Post subject:
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| Tinkle wrote: | | could you imagine what would happen if it came out with undeniable evidence that the govt faked this? |
Wouldn't surprise me but it will never be proved..look here in canada about the 100 millions missing...they only caught 2 people repsonsible of it so far...and 2% of all the lost money...
They always lie..cover each other...and news papper are full of shit too, her eis a little tip..live your life..do as much good as you can and stop right there...
I could care less about what happens elsewere it's all aobut politic...money...power.
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 23:35 Post subject:
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Just the ring thing...these people are religion fanatic...BUT what if they wanted to false the tracks?
IF they can cut off heads...why not put a gold ring?
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Aandidar
Sir Postalot
Joined: 23 Oct 2002
Posts: 1182
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 23:38 Post subject:
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Interesting, I had wondered at the time why he didn't struggle/convulse at the very beginning when they were sawing his head off with a knife. I just figured it was because 4 guys were holding him down but who knows... or cares. The tape did it's job, I wanted to kill some iraqi's after watching it and that's all that matters 
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Maelstrom
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4072
Location: Montréal
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 23:41 Post subject:
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| Aandidar wrote: | | Interesting, I had wondered at the time why he didn't struggle/convulse at the very beginning when they were sawing his head off with a knife. I just figured it was because 4 guys were holding him down but who knows... or cares. The tape did it's job, I wanted to kill some iraqi's after watching it and that's all that matters |
Well from the tape right when they start he takes a bullet you noticed? thats enough to lay someone on the floor I would say, as for why he did'nt jumped on them first..would you attack 5 mens when you don't know for sure at 100% what they are saying? hmmmmm...I would not. Not until i'm sure that i'm about to die and trust me I would have bite that f**k on the guts and torn them appart until my last breath. But unless you know...
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Xismakin
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 930
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Posted: 05/13/04 - 23:58 Post subject:
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Skin tone of the "Terriost" is white, amercian skin color white, one is a female and they are wearing new running shoes, make up under the mask, and the head came off to easy, and less blood then there should be, and our lovely guy getitng his head cut off seems to have grown a bigger head and bigger ears, take zooms on the video and look at it, either they shot him in the heart right in the heart there would have been more blood, there yelling sounds like they are american too, sucks for Bush that he has to make shit up to say the war in iraq is "Good"
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 02:15 Post subject:
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I don't know if I can believe this.. it's not because there isn't some evidence that leads in that direction it's because, quite frankly, it points to probably the most heinous government cover-up tactics conceivable and as much dislike as I have towards some of the things our govt is doing it makes me sad and frightened to even entertain the thought that we could have stooped so low.
-Nah-
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Akronn
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 02:21 Post subject:
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Wouldn't surprise me in the least, although I still need more proof.
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 02:28 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | | Wouldn't surprise me in the least, although I still need more proof. |
You're serious when you say that it wouldn't surprise you in the least?
I take this to mean you expect this sort of behavior from our gov't. Do you?
-Nah-
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Banzai
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 02:30 Post subject:
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2:40:12
2:40:26
2:41:09
2:41:56
2:42:11
2:42:42-2:42:47
2:43:07
2:43:30
2:44:00 I stopped watching
move between any of those time stamps and tell me what you see.
Last edited by Banzai on 05/14/04 - 02:54; edited 1 time in total
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Akronn
Guest
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 02:35 Post subject:
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| Nahualli wrote: | I take this to mean you expect this sort of behavior from our gov't. Do you?
-Nah- |
I hate to answer a question with a question, but would you put this below our administration?
I wouldn't. Not in an election year, and not after they've already used forged documents to start a war.
However, like I said before - I still need more than a conspiracy theorist's argument.
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 02:38 Post subject:
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| Akronn wrote: | | Nahualli wrote: | I take this to mean you expect this sort of behavior from our gov't. Do you?
-Nah- |
I hate to answer a question with a question, but would you put this below our administration?
I wouldn't. Not in an election year, and not after they've already used forged documents to start a war.
However, like I said before - I still need more than a conspiracy theorist's argument. |
Honestly, yes. I would put it below our administration. This isn't a simple (??) election you're trying to win.. this could have global repercussions. We could go from being a superpower to a laughing stock literally overnight if this were true. Why have so much riding on something? There's something called an acceptable risk. This doesn't strike me as an acceptable risk. Like I said, as much as I dislike the current actions of the administration I have faith that it would never come to something like this.
-Nah-
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Banzai
Guest
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 02:45 Post subject:
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Another interesting phenomina: Skip around between time stamp 2:41:09 and 2:41:56, what do you see and what don't you see?
For fun, watch everones head and face position thru the whole clip, even the guy in the white mask who is the most still throughout, contrast to the face positioning with Bergs face.
Not going to say anything other than what I have percieved because I'll never know either way, seeing as I wasn't there personally.
Last edited by Banzai on 05/14/04 - 02:52; edited 1 time in total
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Nahualli
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8461
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 02:48 Post subject:
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well one thing I *did* notice from watching the clip the first time was that at the end, the guys scream "god is great" didn't sound like they had very much conviction in their voices at all. They sounded very much forced "here chant this while we saw off this guy's head" it's not in any way defiant, demonstrative or intimidating.
I have only watched the video once from start to finish but I did read synopsis of the video beforehand.. it just wasnt very convincing to me.
-Nah-
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Bait Masterson
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 02:51 Post subject:
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Well the accent thing is easily atributed to the fact that many Chechans are fantaical muslims and they are veteran terrorists. Since the killing is attributed to Al Qeada, its perfectly feasable to have a chechan among the insurgents.
The found white people from many nations with the Afghanis.
I am not so familiar with islam, but is the law only gold rings? They can wear other rings?If so, how can you be sure given the quality of the film that its actually gold hes wearing? Maybe the guy was a merc, For Al Qeada.
Finally, and what is most telling is.
Why hasnt Al Qeada Denied involvment, they said from the beginning it was Zarqawi. Al Qeada has many days to respond, if they deny it now, id have to say they are trying to make the terrorist attack (that backfired on garnering arab support) actually succeed by playing it off as a fake tape by the Americans to discredit them with thier allies and the muslim public at large.
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Selenar
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 584
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 03:03 Post subject:
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Let's say you're the director of the CIA or whoever, and you were actually convinced that this was a good idea. You go and get your best most scumbag guys to make this video. I mean really...
"Uhhh, we got any chairs?"
"Yeah, lets use this one right here"
"Oh crap, did I say that in Russian? Oops, my bad"
I think not.
-Sel
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Banzai
Guest
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 03:07 Post subject:
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The chair is a red herring.
I know of at least one place in my reality where that chair is present, it's a low cost lawn furniture piece and is probably in any number of places. It can be totally chalked up to coincidence. Flimsy to even mention it really.
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 03:59 Post subject:
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It's unbelievable the lengths that some people will go to in order to demonize the U.S. Simply unbelievable...
Editted for clarity
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Luturb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2002
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Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 04:11 Post subject:
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| Banzai wrote: | The chair is a red herring.
I know of at least one place in my reality where that chair is present, it's a low cost lawn furniture piece and is probably in any number of places. It can be totally chalked up to coincidence. Flimsy to even mention it really. |
Same here. You can see that chair anywhere, including at the pool in my apartment complex. And I'm not so sure those walls are even the same color. I think this guy wants to believe.
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Xthos
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 550
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 04:59 Post subject:
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I deal with color for a living, and those walls are not even close to the same color.....sorry to tell ya.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 09:00 Post subject: Re: Berg execution was a FAKE - for the love of god read thi
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Not that I care all that much, but I'm bored.
| Tinkle wrote: | | 1) Most people replied by asserting that the execution occured as retribution to the abuse photos that had surfaced, but you have to ask yourself - do these terrorists, who are clearly capable of brainwashing people to the point where they are willing to kill and be killed for their beliefs, really have no concept of political tact? Here they are, the whole world screaming at the US for hypocrisy and injustice over these pictures, and they perform and publish this execution right in the heat of the scandal. In other words, these masters of brainwashing and spin and deception release a video of a despicable act just as the US, their sworn enemy, is being globally grilled. Does this make sense to you? |
Of course it makes sense. These are terrorists and they want to scare the US away. That's why they made this video. To scare the US away. If you can't understand this, then I fear you're retarded.
| Tinkle wrote: | 2) Second, I wonder what the standard issue chair is at Abu Ghraib prison?
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I doubt that there is a "standard issue" lawn chair in the Abu Ghraib prison. Surely two plastic chairs do not exist in the world.
*cough*
| Tinkle wrote: | | 3) Is it not interesting that the wall colour at Abu Ghraib prison is identical to that of the video? |
It wouldn't be interesting if they were identical. However, they are not.
| Tinkle wrote: | | 4) Is it not also interesting that Berg is wearing the same orange jumpsuit worn by prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison? Sure, you say, perhaps he was kidnapped directly from the prison (as stupid as this sounds, anyway) - but then can you please explain (7)? |
When this video came out, the jumpsuit was said to have been placed on him because the terrorists were (obviously) doing this in retaliation for for prison abuses. To assume that anybody with a 5th grade education would make such a blunder is just lame.
| Tinkle wrote: | | 5) Is it also not interesting that the timecodes in the video jump back and forth? |
The link is broken so I can't see this one.
| Tinkle wrote: | | 6) Is it also not interesting that Berg did not exhibit any of the convulsions that typically accompany decapitation? http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/uac/iacuc/rodents/avma.htm I am suggesting here that Berg was already dead when the decapitation occured (which accounts for 5). Before you go calling me crazy, please review the evidence; why did he not exhibit the convulsions that go hand in hand with decapitation (especially such an extended one)? |
I'm not an expert on decapitation by any means, but the similar murder in that bosnian (or chechyan or whatever) video had a similar effect on the guy.
| Tinkle wrote: | | 7) Is it not curious that the US denies contact with Berg, and yet his friends and family insist that he told them he was being held by the US? Huh? Why? |
Uh...the US didn't deny this and in fact said they arranged for his transporation out of the country 3 times.
| Tinkle wrote: | | Another tape oddity - the men SPEAK RUSSIAN for several seconds. Not only that, but they speak Arabic with Russian accents. That's right, in the final seconds of the tape, one of the men speaks in Russian. Those here who understand russian (and have the stomach to view that final seconds of the video) can verify this. Those who speak Arabic will be able to verify that these men speak Arabic in Russian accents. |
Chechnya
| Tinkle wrote: | 9) Finally (the physical evidence that will convince you in case you already aren't)...
You will notice, in watching the video, that 6 times, a gold ring flashes on the hand of the executioner. What is the problem? Islam completely and utterly forbids men to wear gold rings. This fanatical muslim, willing to kill in a gutwrenching manner, and be killed for his beliefs, is violating one of the clear prohibitions of his religion? Really? DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU? |
I need to watch the video to take a look. I'm also not familiar with caveman customs.
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Mugaaz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3576
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 09:39 Post subject:
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Dude, the chick in that pic has down-syndrome hardcore and is deformed too boot.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 10:01 Post subject:
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tinkle..do you buy this shit? seriously?
it's not even worth shooting down the points brought up by this freak
it's funny how people try so hard to find something in an event, like pointing at the us government and blaming them for something that someone does in the world
seriously if you buy into this shit, just leave the country if you believe all the shit you are swallowing
go live in the middle east and see how well anyone here'd fit in, any anyone else agreeing for that matter
I think the world would be a better place without these people here in the US breathing my air
how can I keep such utter b******t topics like this seriously?
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 10:05 Post subject:
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the holocaust in WW II didnt happen either.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 05/14/04 - 10:09 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | | the holocaust in WW II didnt happen either. |
what holocoust?
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