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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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 Posted: 08/11/04 - 12:04 Post subject:
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| Renork wrote: | | Confused wrote: | | Reebo wrote: | I would like to ask what would those who say they are pro-life like done? I don’t mean a simple answer of make abortions illegal. I mean what will you do to help those people who will try to get back alley abortions or do it themselves.
The real only reason I cannot be against abortions is because I can’t see making no exception to the rule. At least it has to be available for those who would die if they don’t have an abortion.
I do plan to have kids but if I s***w up and have one I will either keep it or give it up for adoption, however I am not a women so I would make sure my girlfriend/wife felt the same way. And if she went through with an abortion just because she didn’t want to have a child I would leave her.
Why does every pro-life person I see just scream murder and show pictures and doesn’t ever talk without either attacking someone or getting all irrational.
How would you pro-lifers write the law for anti-abortion? Would there be any exceptions? How will you help women who still want to have them? Will you add extra support to adoption agencies? How will you prosecute the doctors who do them illegally? How about the women? Will you be more willing to promote condoms even to teens if abortion was illegal? |
"Back-alley abortions" were never commonplace. That's a trumped up issue, similar to the "Pro-lifers are just as bad as abotionists (who are responsible for 50,000,000 killings) because 2 or 3 of them killed a couple doctors 10 years ago" argument or the "What about when the mother's life is at risk (which accounts for fewer than 1% of abortions)". Abortions should simply be illegal (with certain rare extenuating circumstances). |
You dont seem to have answered the question. |
So?
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 12:32 Post subject: -==-
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If it were up to me, this would have to be a case by case deal, with a good reason for the abortion. There would have to be guidelines as to what exactly would count, but things such as complications that would kill the mother, etc
I can't stand it when abortion is used as birth control. It disgusts me. I imagine these women would probably eat their young if they let it live long enough to pop out of their vagina.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 12:39 Post subject:
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In my eyes aborition is a necessary evil. How many children will be born if abortion is illegal who will be: Abandoned, put up for adoption, living in poverty, abused, etc by parents who did not want to have them in the first place? I don't hold with any ideas that think life begins at conception... if you are alive at that point why can't you be claimed on your parents tax form ?
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 12:41 Post subject: -==-
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| Frax wrote: | | In my eyes aborition is a necessary evil. How many children will be born if abortion is illegal who will be: Abandoned, put up for adoption, living in poverty, abused, etc by parents who did not want to have them in the first place? I don't hold with any ideas that think life begins at conception... if you are alive at that point why can't you be claimed on your parents tax form ? |
Because then you can claim him/her, then abort the kid. It'd be like welfare-lite.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 12:49 Post subject:
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My comment was somewhat in jest, however when you look at anti abortion groups, many claim a child exists at the moment of conception. If that child has the right to live, then you have an obligation as a mother/father at that point, you should also have the legal right to claim 'baby' as a dependant under that train of thought.
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 12:54 Post subject: -==-
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True, but a system like that would be so easy to abuse.
s***s around the country rejoice! It would be like getting two paychecks for a p********e.
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 12:58 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | | killing, murder, its all the same result. Thou shalt not kill. |
You mentioned that killing in self-defense is acceptable. What about in defense of others? I think that is the theory that would allow you to support a war and not abortion. If you are killing people to save other people, is that still inherently immoral? What if you kill 10,000 enemy soldiers to save 1000 civilians that they were trying to murder? What about killing to stop slavery? Today, in the Sudan, the government is, either directly or indirectly, killing nearly 1000 people per day. Would it be immoral in your eyes to send in a bunch of soldiers to kill members of that government in order to save innocent civilians? I think the idea that killing in war = murdering innocent people is extremely simplistic and illogical.
Also no one commented on my "is life" vs. "will be life" question, although I don't think anybody is really pushing the "it's not a person until X days of pregnancy when it becomes one" theory too hard.
Edit: Frax, that tax form thing is a d*****s arugment. I'm sure you can do better than that. 
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 13:11 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | | killing, murder, its all the same result. Thou shalt not kill. |
Wow......
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 13:16 Post subject:
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| Luturb wrote: | | Frehya wrote: | | killing, murder, its all the same result. Thou shalt not kill. |
You mentioned that killing in self-defense is acceptable. What about in defense of others? I think that is the theory that would allow you to support a war and not abortion. If you are killing people to save other people, is that still inherently immoral? What if you kill 10,000 enemy soldiers to save 1000 civilians that they were trying to murder? What about killing to stop slavery? Today, in the Sudan, the government is, either directly or indirectly, killing nearly 1000 people per day. Would it be immoral in your eyes to send in a bunch of soldies to kill members of that government in order to save innocent civilians? I think the idea that killing in war = murdering innocent people is extremely simplistic and illogical.
Also no one commented on my "is life" vs. "will be life" question, although I don't think anybody is really pushing the "it's not a person until X days of pregnancy when it becomes one" theory too hard. |
My point was that when you start making judgement calls and splitting hairs and making exceptions, you start to get into the mess we are in now... no one can agree. If you want to go with the Ten Commandments, its pretty cut and dried.
If people say dont kill humans, I was giving an example of how far you would have to go to stay true to that concept. And this would make the world an evern worse mess than it is right now.
I really have to agree with Frax on several of his points. (dammit)
He said succinctly what I wanted to bring up but couldnt think of how to do in in 5,000 words or less. Although I didnt think of the tax thing. lol
I gotta run out the door for the say. Not ignoring your other points in your post. sayonara
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 13:21 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | | In my eyes aborition is a necessary evil. How many children will be born if abortion is illegal who will be: Abandoned, put up for adoption, living in poverty, abused, etc by parents who did not want to have them in the first place? |
A lot of people have unhappy lives. I don't think most of them would say they would have preferred to be killed at birth to avoid their difficult situation. I can't buy the assertion that being abused, neglected, or put up for adoption is a fate worse than death. I had this discussion once with a guy at school who had been adopted, and he mentioned that it had been hard for him and he had been depressed, etc. Of course when I asked if he wished he was dead he said no.
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Mugaaz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3576
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 13:23 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | | Luturb wrote: | | Frehya wrote: | | killing, murder, its all the same result. Thou shalt not kill. |
You mentioned that killing in self-defense is acceptable. What about in defense of others? I think that is the theory that would allow you to support a war and not abortion. If you are killing people to save other people, is that still inherently immoral? What if you kill 10,000 enemy soldiers to save 1000 civilians that they were trying to murder? What about killing to stop slavery? Today, in the Sudan, the government is, either directly or indirectly, killing nearly 1000 people per day. Would it be immoral in your eyes to send in a bunch of soldies to kill members of that government in order to save innocent civilians? I think the idea that killing in war = murdering innocent people is extremely simplistic and illogical.
Also no one commented on my "is life" vs. "will be life" question, although I don't think anybody is really pushing the "it's not a person until X days of pregnancy when it becomes one" theory too hard. |
My point was that when you start making judgement calls and splitting hairs and making exceptions, you start to get into the mess we are in now... no one can agree. If you want to go with the Ten Commandments, its pretty cut and dried.
If people say dont kill humans, I was giving an example of how far you would have to go to stay true to that concept. And this would make the world an evern worse mess than it is right now.
I really have to agree with Frax on several of his points. (dammit)
He said succinctly what I wanted to bring up but couldnt think of how to do in in 5,000 words or less. Although I didnt think of the tax thing. lol
I gotta run out the door for the say. Not ignoring your other points in your post. sayonara |
There are excepetions to every rule. As far as a solution goes. Who the f**k am I, Harry Houdini? If I could spout a soultion for every extra child I'd win the f*****g Nobel Prize. All I know is that somehow it worked w/o abortion for all of human history except the last 50ish. I don't see why it suddenly became impossible. I dunno, don't you think that if it was illegal that the rate of pregnancy just might go down some?
On top of that, this thread isn't about the solution to the problem of excess childreon or people. It's about the morality of abortion. Becuase a moral action is harder or very difficult to do doesn't make it any more or less valid. Murder isn't legal becuase people get angry.
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 13:27 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | | Luturb wrote: | | Frehya wrote: | | killing, murder, its all the same result. Thou shalt not kill. |
You mentioned that killing in self-defense is acceptable. What about in defense of others? I think that is the theory that would allow you to support a war and not abortion. If you are killing people to save other people, is that still inherently immoral? What if you kill 10,000 enemy soldiers to save 1000 civilians that they were trying to murder? What about killing to stop slavery? Today, in the Sudan, the government is, either directly or indirectly, killing nearly 1000 people per day. Would it be immoral in your eyes to send in a bunch of soldies to kill members of that government in order to save innocent civilians? I think the idea that killing in war = murdering innocent people is extremely simplistic and illogical.
Also no one commented on my "is life" vs. "will be life" question, although I don't think anybody is really pushing the "it's not a person until X days of pregnancy when it becomes one" theory too hard. |
My point was that when you start making judgement calls and splitting hairs and making exceptions, you start to get into the mess we are in now... no one can agree. If you want to go with the Ten Commandments, its pretty cut and dried.
If people say dont kill humans, I was giving an example of how far you would have to go to stay true to that concept. And this would make the world an evern worse mess than it is right now.
I really have to agree with Frax on several of his points. (dammit)
He said succinctly what I wanted to bring up but couldnt think of how to do in in 5,000 words or less. Although I didnt think of the tax thing. lol
I gotta run out the door for the say. Not ignoring your other points in your post. sayonara |
Considering it's "thou shalt not murder"....
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 13:41 Post subject:
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and it's tenet - not tenant - brainiac
to quote yourself - there ARE online dictionaries.. smart guy
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Reebo
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1260
Location: Downtown Miami
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 13:47 Post subject:
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We need a new topic
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Confused
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 6730
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 13:48 Post subject:
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| Obmar wrote: | and it's tenet - not tenant - brainiac
to quote yourself - there ARE online dictionaries.. smart guy |
I post using half my brain (since I work during the day). Even then, I destroy all of your arguments with ease.
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 14:11 Post subject:
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Nice try dolt.
I only point out your stupidity when it becomes ironic.
The example above is a perfect case. You busted someone on some misuse of a word or a mispelling, and then follow that up with your own idiocy.
Classic.
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Mugaaz
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 3576
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 14:12 Post subject:
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Name calling is the pinnacle of debate.
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Reebo
Sir Postalot
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1260
Location: Downtown Miami
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 14:29 Post subject:
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| Mugaaz wrote: | | Name calling is the pinnacle of debate. |
This is realpoor
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Guest
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 14:33 Post subject:
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| Reebo wrote: | | Mugaaz wrote: | | Name calling is the pinnacle of debate. |
This is realpoor |
What is debate?
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Renork
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 6282
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 14:46 Post subject:
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| Kbarr wrote: | | Reebo wrote: | | Mugaaz wrote: | | Name calling is the pinnacle of debate. |
This is realpoor |
What is debate? |
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 14:47 Post subject:
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| Kbarr wrote: | | Reebo wrote: | | Mugaaz wrote: | | Name calling is the pinnacle of debate. |
This is realpoor |
What is debate? |
This question from you is not suprising
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Guest
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Posted: 08/11/04 - 14:50 Post subject:
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| Obmar wrote: | | Kbarr wrote: | | Reebo wrote: | | Mugaaz wrote: | | Name calling is the pinnacle of debate. |
This is realpoor |
What is debate? |
This question from you is not suprising |
Explain this please. Is he lying or just forgetting, or something else?
Is he trying to dupe people?
LOL
Explain please.
http://media1.stream2you.com/rnc/072304v2.wmv
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 08:28 Post subject:
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So - Kbarr idiocy aside
Does anyone want to weigh in here?
dead babies are at stake!!!!
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Zab
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 1222
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 09:18 Post subject:
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| Reebo wrote: | I would like to ask what would those who say they are pro-life like done? I don’t mean a simple answer of make abortions illegal. I mean what will you do to help those people who will try to get back alley abortions or do it themselves.
The real only reason I cannot be against abortions is because I can’t see making no exception to the rule. At least it has to be available for those who would die if they don’t have an abortion.
I do plan to have kids but if I s***w up and have one I will either keep it or give it up for adoption, however I am not a women so I would make sure my girlfriend/wife felt the same way. And if she went through with an abortion just because she didn’t want to have a child I would leave her.
Why does every pro-life person I see just scream murder and show pictures and doesn’t ever talk without either attacking someone or getting all irrational.
How would you pro-lifers write the law for anti-abortion? Would there be any exceptions? How will you help women who still want to have them? Will you add extra support to adoption agencies? How will you prosecute the doctors who do them illegally? How about the women? Will you be more willing to promote condoms even to teens if abortion was illegal? |
apparently you didnt read my post! either of them. i dont get into all the details you stated above but i do go into quite a few of them such as exceptions and such.
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 09:28 Post subject:
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I think that once you start thinking aboiut exceptions you get into deep water.
The realization that you cannot come up with a fair law for all means there should be no law. By that I mean if you were to make it illegal,but for a few certain types of cases, you then get into a similar debate, but it has moved a couple houses down the block is all.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 09:42 Post subject:
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Women have been having abortions since conception was possible. They would do it through drugs, starvation or even violence. Is someone in this thread claiming abortions are new to the past 50 years? Sorry, I haven't had any caffeine today.
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 11:27 Post subject:
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| Occulis wrote: | | Is someone in this thread claiming abortions are new to the past 50 years? |
I don't think so.
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Guest
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 12:25 Post subject:
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| Obmar wrote: | So - Kbarr idiocy aside
Does anyone want to weigh in here?
dead babies are at stake!!!! |
p***y.
Coward.
Explain the lies a*****e.
EXPLAIN!!
http://media1.stream2you.com/rnc/072304v2.wmv
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 12:28 Post subject: -==-
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Really, if you think about it, abortion just keeps liberals from having offspring, or at least minimizes it.
Gentlemen, perhaps we ARE on the wrong side of this issue 
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Obmar
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 1934
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Posted: 08/12/04 - 14:17 Post subject:
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nice and circular
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