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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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 Posted: 05/30/05 - 12:22 Post subject: Advice from people in creative or customer-related jobs
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Ok, so people are arrogant and presumptious.
Let's get that out of the way first. I mean, we all can agree that's true in general ;p
So I'm working as a textwriter nowadays. I get hired by a publisher to write backgroundstories about companies for promotional books. I have to go there, interview, write the text, and get the company's approval, before actually sending my text in and getting paid. The companies pay for the text, so in essence they are paying customers (not to me, but to my publisher - who btw does not 'employ' me in a strict sense, but rather works with me).
I don't know if it's me being inexperienced or the general assholishness of the group of people I work with, but I feel like I am cornered into the very uncomfortable position of having to swallow my (work)pride on a regular basis in order to 'get the job done'.
I go there, interview, write the text - so far so good.
The problem lies with getting the texts approved. Half of them get approved no problem, with sometimes little corrections here and there. And then there are the companies that send me back MY work completely rewritten (against my express wish - I put it politely in my email for them to please not edit my text, I will do any necessary editing myself). The rewriting itself is an insult. Plain and simple. But more frustrating is the way they do it. In almost all cases they downgrade the text rather than upgrade, change things that I cannot fathom a reasonable explanation for, and sometimes plainly change my text (which is, save for the occasional error, in correct Dutch) into INcorrect language with an air of superiority I almost cannot stand to suffer.
In the beginning I would get almost to the point of being outraged by the way people treat my work. If I had to explain how it feels: it's like making a painting and someone else drawing something ugly allover it, I guess.
I'm used to it now, a lot of times just conceding whatever stupid changes they want in order to just get it over with and get paid. But it does result in (slightly) inferior work regularly and that kind of bothers me. It's my name on the credits when it's being published. I try to tell myself it's 'just work', and in a way it is, but it's also a piece of myself I'm putting out there, if that makes any sense.
I try to stay professional, not take it personally, but it's hard. I feel inexperienced, and flying solo, it's hard to find people to ask for advice in my own field. I've tried profession-related messageboards, but noone seems to be there to reply to stuff...
Any advice on how to handle this?
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Frehya
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2398
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Posted: 05/30/05 - 12:40 Post subject:
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The corporate world is a*****e central. It sounds like your job isnt all that necessary to some of those companies. They should just send in their own stuff, but this way, they get your services in the deal. I sure find it alot easier to critique and change someone else's work than to start from scratch, outline and write it myself.
I wonder if the problem isnt in the way the approach is for the corrections.
If there was a way to control how that works. Maybe send an online form that they can only check approve or disapprove with a tiny space for changes. Somehow make it harder for them to do so much damage in the approval phase.
If their grammar is bad.....ignore those changes. If the content needs correction, there might be something that you can improve in interpreting your interviews.
You also are a woman and young, so that is 2 strikes against you in the respect dept.  The third strike of course, is dealing with the corporate mind.
I dunno, just babbling. I photograph, I dont get too many complaints from clients because if they didnt like my stuff they wouldnt have hired me in the first place.....but I have product shoots for 2 different (small) companies in the next 2 weeks. We'll see how I feel about this topic after that. 
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 05/30/05 - 13:23 Post subject:
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| Frehya wrote: | | The corporate world is a*****e central. It sounds like your job isnt all that necessary to some of those companies. They should just send in their own stuff, but this way, they get your services in the deal. I sure find it alot easier to critique and change someone else's work than to start from scratch, outline and write it myself. |
I think that's true in some ways. The thing is I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place sometimes. My publisher expects a backgroundstory, while the company sometimes wants more of an advertorial. The two are oftentimes opposed. I don't want to send in a story that sounds like an ad, but the companies want to present themselves in a certain way. So then you have to compromise. So in that way I accept that some texts need to be changed to satisfy a customer The problem is that it's my text, so if they want something changed they should have the courtesy to let me do it in my own way. They are rude in just taking over and doing whatever the hell they want with my work.
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I wonder if the problem isnt in the way the approach is for the corrections.
If there was a way to control how that works. Maybe send an online form that they can only check approve or disapprove with a tiny space for changes. Somehow make it harder for them to do so much damage in the approval phase.
If their grammar is bad.....ignore those changes. If the content needs correction, there might be something that you can improve in interpreting your interviews. |
True enough. I will think they find a way though, even if I would lock my texts into read-only mode or something. It's not like they are complaining, it;s just that their ideas of what they want in the text sometimes differ from mine. Which is fine, if they could just treat me better. Was just wondering how other people deal with feeling like they have to swallow their pride for work.
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shinja mayoke
Luke Warm
Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 434
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Posted: 05/30/05 - 13:36 Post subject:
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I hate it for you, but at least you have a f*****g job!
You cant get a job washing cars in the Atlanta area right now, despite what the help wanted section may look like.
I swear to god, go apply for a job washing cars, they want a 6 year degree in automotive care and 10 years in related experience, must have been with Fortune 500 company.
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Nobunaga
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 932
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Posted: 05/30/05 - 13:36 Post subject:
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Just remember 2 things: 1) Their corrections are not to be taken personally for the most part. They simply want something done in a certain way. 2) The customer is always right as long as they continue to pay you...
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Nictathan
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 5531
Location: here... where I am... not with you
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Posted: 05/30/05 - 13:43 Post subject:
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Nobu... your avatar is mesmerizing me with her cute smile which is so full of innocent fun!
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Ashley
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 907
Location: Amfek.org
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Posted: 05/30/05 - 15:20 Post subject:
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working in customer service type jobs means that you're going to have to work FOR dumb people who dont know what the hell they're doing/talking about. What ive found works best for me is to advise them in the direction that i think would be best (My job is floral customer service, so while its very different, there is definately still the creative/customer clash, though probably not as often- people tend to be happy when they're buying flowers  ), anyway, try to impress what you would do onto them, and if they insist on having it another way, just do it that way and if it sucks... well thats too bad for them.
Just the other week, my coworker did a pretty expensive order for this one crazy woman (it was for a "Horse" party.... umm.... okayyyyy). Anyway, the arrangement was beautiful (this coworker is probably the best of all of us at arrangements, and has had a lot of experience). Well, i was working when the woman came in to pick it up and it didnt quite match her "vision". Although it was perfectly fine as it was, she wanted changes, so i just sucked it up and did whatever she wanted. I personally thought it looked awful afterward and was much better before, but she loved it.
Basically, what im trying to say is my method is if they insist on having it a certain way and will not listen, I just od whatever they say to the best of my ability, and then if it sucks I dont feel bad in the end. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. (and so is good writing - If I were you, i would make it harder for them to make the changes, and probably kind of subtly hint that it isnt an advertisment for them in the beginning of the interview (in as nice of a way as possible). In the end, they're paying though, so if it comes down to it you just have to suck it up (and if they're particularly rude, maybe make sure an anonymous complaint letter makes its way to their boss  )
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Okami
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 2242
Location: The new board
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Posted: 05/30/05 - 15:26 Post subject:
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how about sending the articles to them for apporval in a read-only file, and they can submit any ideas seperately to you so you can rewrite as you like.
Or maybe put some sort of disclaimer - err I mean crediting text , to mention their contributions, so you don't get all the blame for glaring problems.
It's going to stink having to show previous published work to a new job when you are getting all the blame on their shoddy changes.
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 05/30/05 - 16:30 Post subject:
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| Ashley wrote: | | If I were you, i would make it harder for them to make the changes, and probably kind of subtly hint that it isnt an advertisment for them in the beginning of the interview (in as nice of a way as possible). |
I have - some people just ignore the accompanying email where it says not to edit my work and do what they want anyway.
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In the end, they're paying though, so if it comes down to it you just have to suck it up (and if they're particularly rude, maybe make sure an anonymous complaint letter makes its way to their boss ) |
They are the boss
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 05/30/05 - 16:31 Post subject:
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| Okami wrote: | how about sending the articles to them for apporval in a read-only file, and they can submit any ideas seperately to you so you can rewrite as you like.
Or maybe put some sort of disclaimer - err I mean crediting text , to mention their contributions, so you don't get all the blame for glaring problems.
It's going to stink having to show previous published work to a new job when you are getting all the blame on their shoddy changes. |
Luckily my name isn't directly under every text, and we have more writers on one project, so it's easy to shed the blame hehe
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Celestra
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 6929
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Posted: 05/30/05 - 16:34 Post subject:
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| shinja mayoke wrote: | I hate it for you, but at least you have a f*****g job!
You cant get a job washing cars in the Atlanta area right now, despite what the help wanted section may look like.
I swear to god, go apply for a job washing cars, they want a 6 year degree in automotive care and 10 years in related experience, must have been with Fortune 500 company. |
Ya I know.
But I feel your pain... I've been looking for a new job and it's f*****g hard!
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Someone
Toomuchtimeonhands
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 929
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Posted: 05/30/05 - 21:05 Post subject:
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My brother works at Subway. I will as him to help you.
Good Luck
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Callaren
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 03 Dec 2003
Posts: 1598
Location: South Jersey
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Posted: 05/30/05 - 23:37 Post subject:
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| Someone wrote: | My brother works at Subway. I will as him to help you.
Good Luck |
Lol
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