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Plat4PoP
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 14376
Location: USA
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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 Posted: 10/25/04 - 10:49 Post subject: Re: 380 f*****g Tons! 760,000+lbs of BOOM!!!!
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| Plat4PoP wrote: | http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/25/iraq.explosives/index.html
You know how much real estate 380 Tons takes up?!?!?!?!?!
Where the hell is it? |
The density of most pure high explosives (not counting packaging) is 1.25-1.5 gm/cubic cm. Doing the conversion, 380 tons is around 330 cubic yards. A good sized heavy commercial truck will hold 50 cubic yards. So you're talking maybe 6-7 huge truck loads, not including packaging. Or maybe 15-20 smaller ttrucks. That's a lot, but not so much it would be impossible to hide. And sadly, it will make one hell of a lot of roadside bombs.
I wonder what the total weight of exposives the US brought with them to Iraq is? Comparable? Or a factor of 100 or 1000 times as much? I can't really estimate iit.
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Plat4PoP
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 14376
Location: USA
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 11:07 Post subject:
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Fox News just stated that the site in question was raided numerous times over many months and that the White House knew about it over a month ago but due to them thinking the enemy may not know what they stole they decided not to tell anyone.
Does that make sense?
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 11:09 Post subject:
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| Plat4PoP wrote: | Fox News just stated that the site in question was raided numerous times over many months and that the White House knew about it over a month ago but due to them thinking the enemy may not know what they stole they decided not to tell anyone.
Does that make sense? |
As much sense as anything else the White House says.
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 11:18 Post subject:
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Information is weird. The armed forces can't give away every secret move they make, but they can't hide everything either.
Hopefully Iraq will have as much luck with their explosives as North Korea did.
| Quote: | | On September 17, 2004, South Korean Vice Minister of unification Rhee Bong-jo claimed that there was no explosion at all at the purported site, saying the supposed mushroom cloud was a natural cloud formation. |
lol
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 11:21 Post subject:
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<--
There was no explosion!
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 11:46 Post subject:
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It does seem unlikely that if someone methodically went to all the trouble of carting tens of large truckloads of high explosives (complete with International Atomic Energy Agency seals) away over several months, that they wouldn't have had a reasonable idea what they were doing.
The NYT quotes an unnamed "source in the administration" as saying that since it's clear the material is already being used in the roadside bombs that are killing American soldiers, the administration tried to keep it quiet so nobody would point out their failure to secure the site was leading directly to American deaths. That seems a good deal more likely than that the people who stole the explosives thought they were fertilizer or landscaping mulch or something 
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Guest
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 13:15 Post subject:
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| Quote: | Dover, NH - Senator John Kerry released the following statement today on the Bush administration’s failure to secure nearly 380 tons of high-grade explosives in Iraq:
“George W. Bush who talks tough and brags about making America safer has once again failed to deliver. After being warned about the danger of major stockpiles of explosives in Iraq, this administration failed to guard those stockpiles – where nearly 380 tons of highly explosive weapons were kept. Today we learned that these explosives are missing, unaccounted for and could be in the hands of terrorists.
“Terrorists could use this material to kill our troops and our people, blow up airplanes and level buildings.
“In May of this year, the administration was warned that terrorists may be helping themselves to ‘the greatest explosives bonanza in history.’ And now we know that our country and our troops are less safe because this president failed to do the basics. This is one of the great blunders of the Bush policy in Iraq.
“The unbelievable incompetence of this president and his administration has put our troops at risk. George W. Bush has failed the essential test of any commander in chief to keep America safe.
“Every step of the way this administration has miscalculated – miscalculated about how many troops we need. Secretary Rumsfeld cavalierly dismissed the danger of looting -- and now we know the impact.
“Make no mistake: our troops are the best-trained and best-led forces in the world, and they have been doing their job honorably and bravely. The problem is the Commander-in-Chief has not being doing his.
“If President Bush can’t recognize his failures in Iraq, he can’t fix them. And he’s doomed to repeat the same mistakes there and elsewhere. We can’t afford to risk four more years of George W. Bush.
“With President Bush, we face the prospect of a war that’s spiraling out of control in Iraq. As president, I will succeed in Iraq and bring our troops home.”
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 13:19 Post subject:
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go go scare tactics! get the natives scared!
Apparently it works!
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 13:24 Post subject:
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Didn't we hear about this months ago...yup, we did. 
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Occulis
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 13293
Location: Moral Relativity Central
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 14:29 Post subject:
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naggur dux
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Plat4PoP
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 14376
Location: USA
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 21:05 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | go go scare tactics! get the natives scared!
Apparently it works! |
Ya d**k Cheney should quit doing that.
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Plat4PoP
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 14376
Location: USA
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 21:07 Post subject:
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| Docter wrote: | | Didn't we hear about this months ago...yup, we did. |
Can you get me a link please? I would like to see where all the news programs are wrong.
Every news station is saying this is the first of its release and some Republicans are claiming its the Dems Oct Surprise. Either way Bush cannot look good with this news.
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Conqueso
Luke Warm
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
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Vekril
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 2525
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 23:26 Post subject:
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new article on Drudge says this stuff was missing BEFORE the armed invasion of Iraq even began...
things that make you go hmmm
edit: here is the story - check boldface for the key info
| Quote: | XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX MON OCT 25 2004 22:45:05 ET XXXXX
NBCNEWS: HUGE CACHE OF EXPLOSIVES VANISHED FROM SITE IN IRAQ -- AT LEAST 18 MONTHS AGO -- BEFORE TROOPS ARRIVED
The NYTIMES urgently reported on Monday in an apprent October Surprise: The Iraqi interim government has warned the United States and international nuclear inspectors that nearly 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives are now missing from one of Iraq's most sensitive former military installations.
Jumping on the TIMES exclusive, Dem presidential candidate John Kerry blasted the Bush administration for its failure to "guard those stockpiles."
"This is one of the great blunders of Iraq, one of the great blunders of this administration," Kerry said.
In an election week rush:
**ABCNEWS Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 4 Times
**CBSNEWS Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 7 Times
**MSNBC Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 37 Times
**CNN Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 50 Times
But tonight, NBCNEWS reported: The 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives were already missing back in April 10, 2003 -- when U.S. troops arrived at the installation south of Baghdad!
An NBCNEWS crew embedded with troops moved in to secure the Al-Qaqaa weapons facility on April 10, 2003, one day after the liberation of Iraq.
According to NBCNEWS, the HMX and RDX explosives were already missing when the American troops arrived.
It is not clear why the NYTIMES failed to inform readers how the cache had been missing for 18 months -- and was reportedly missing before troops even arrived.
The TIMES left the impression the weapons site had been looted since Iraq has been under US control.
[In a fresh Page One story set for Tuesday on the matter, the TIMES once again omits any reference to troops not finding any explosives at the site when they arrived in April of 2003. Attempts to reach managing editor Jill Abramson late Monday were unsuccessful.]
"The U.S. Army was at the site one day after the liberation and the weapons were already gone," a top Republican blasted from Washington late Monday.
The International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors last saw the explosives in January 2003 when they took an inventory and placed fresh seals on the bunkers.
Dem vp hopeful John Edwards blasted Bush for not securing the explosives: "It is reckless and irresponsible to fail to protect and safeguard one of the largest weapons sites in the country. And by either ignoring these mistakes or being clueless about them, George Bush has failed. He has failed as our commander in chief; he has failed as president."
A senior Bush official e-mailed DRUDGE late Monday: "Let me get this straight, are Mr. Kerry and Mr. Edwards now saying we did not go into Iraq soon enough? We should have invaded and liberated Iraq sooner?"
Top Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart fired back Monday night: "In a shameless attempt to cover up its failure to secure 380 tons of highly explosive material in Iraq, the White House is desperately flailing in an effort to escape blame. Instead of distorting John Kerry’s words, the Bush campaign is now falsely and deliberately twisting the reports of journalists. It is the latest pathetic excuse from an administration that never admits a mistake, no matter how disastrous."
Developing...
-----------------------------------------------------------
Filed By Matt Drudge
Reports are moved when circumstances warrant
http://www.drudgereport.com for updates
(c)DRUDGE REPORT 2004
Not for reproduction without permission of the author
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Last edited by Vekril on 10/25/04 - 23:39; edited 1 time in total
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Nuldaan
Sir Postalot
Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 1179
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Posted: 10/25/04 - 23:34 Post subject:
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Shush Vekril. It's obviously Bush's fault.
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Docter
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3420
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 00:00 Post subject:
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f**k the media, all they do is drown out stories about Kerry with outdated and misleading information in attacks against Bush.
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 00:11 Post subject:
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Silvermouse
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 11015
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 01:33 Post subject:
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| Docter wrote: | | f**k the media, all they do is drown out stories about Kerry with outdated and misleading information in attacks against Bush. |
And just what the f**k are YOU going to do about it? Nothing!
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wellspoken
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 7137
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 02:24 Post subject:
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nice avatar img sm.
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Taadieri
Rookie
Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 70
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 04:33 Post subject:
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I suggest you check out http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_24.php#003800 for a good look at all the reporting on this issue and an analysis of why the NBC report and the excuses of this royal f**k-up of an administration don't make sense.
This article http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1098677410357
in the Jerusalem Post mentions that the IAEA did a full inventory of the site in January, but continued to visit it up to early March, just a few days before the invasion. It also quotes an unnamed pentagon official who says the explosive were intact after the invasion.
| The Jerusalem Post wrote: | | At the Pentagon, an official who monitors developments in Iraq said US-led coalition troops had searched Al-Qaqaa in the immediate aftermath of the March 2003 invasion and confirmed that the explosives, which had been under IAEA seal since 1991, were intact. Thereafter the site was not secured by U.S. forces, the official said, also speaking on condition of anonymity. |
So, to recap:
The IAEA was aware of these explosives which are a "dual-use" product that can be used for civilian purposes but also has applications in the production of nuclear bombs. They had conducted a full inventory of the RDX and HMX explosives and placed them under seal in January 2003. Those seals were intact as late as early March, just before the invasion.
There are conflicting reports as to whether the explosives were still there immediately after the invasion. One pentagon official has said that they were, but didn't provide details. NBC and some administration officials have said they were not, pointing to a visit to the site by the 101st Ariborne division on April 10, 2003. The 3rd Infantry Division visited the site a week before that looking for WMD and found thousands of boxes filled with explosives. It is not clear from their report if these were the RDX and HMX that are generating the concern since neither the 3rd Infantry or the 101st conducted more than spot checks of the 87 bunkers and buildings in the 3 mile by 3 mile site and neither was specifically looking for these explosives.
The site was not secured after these visits.
Removing 380 tons of materials would have required at least 40 large trucks. Such an operation would have taken several days at least and would have been almost impossible to hide in the days before the invasion when Iraq was under heavy aerial and satellite surveilance. Surveilance that would have been particularly heavy at a major munitions facility that was suspected of having WMD.
If the administration was aware these explosives were missing, they were obligated under nuclear non-proliferation treaties to report it to the IAEA. Instead, no reports were made for over 18 months and the administration reportedly urged the Iraqi Interim Government to keep it secret, but the Iraqi's eventually reported it to the IAEA.
It is possible, even probable, that these explosives have been used in some of the road-side bombs and car-bombing attacks that have killed so many of our troops and of U.S., Iraqi and international civilians since the invasion.
The administration seems to be trying out as many different excuses as possible for this monumental s***w-up in the hopes that one of them will stick. Some officials have suggested that they didn't even know the explosives were missing until the Iraqi's reported it a few days ago, while others are claiming that this is old news and the explosives went missing before the invasion.
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Kurel
RealPoor Sensei
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 1877
Location: Cali
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 08:18 Post subject:
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Anyone stop to think that maybe we took it?
Sure there's news stories that state we don't know where the f**k it's all at. But that's called disinformation.
Kinda like how the air force created a UFO scare in the 40's and 50's to cover up top secret plane tests.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 09:16 Post subject:
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There are absolutely no WMD in Iraq.
I'd call 380 TONS of high explosives "WMD".
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Plat4PoP
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 14376
Location: USA
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 09:43 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | There are absolutely no WMD in Iraq.
I'd call 380 TONS of high explosives "WMD". |
You would think if they were thought of WMD they would of made damn sure no one stole or moved them before, during or after the war started. If anyone would of tried to they would put an air strike on their ass.
Bush's people are trying to blow this off stating that almost 400 tons HAVE been stopped or destroyed from the 100's of sites that Iraq had with these types of weapons. Yet they offer no explanation as to why almost 1/2 of the TOTAL amount that was in ONE spot could not be accounted for. They did reitterate on Bush's fact that the 'job is hard sometimes'
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 10:00 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | There are absolutely no WMD in Iraq.
I'd call 380 TONS of high explosives "WMD". |
You're usually less naive than that.
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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 10:09 Post subject:
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I'm not being naive at all. I find it funny that NO MATTER WHAT happens some of you think Bush is wrong.
We coulda found a nuclear weapon in Iraq and someone would have said it was Bush's fault they had one.
This entire issue is completely overblown, a co-worker saw this and said 'Hmmm didn't this come on the news like 6 months ago?"
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 10:28 Post subject:
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| Frax wrote: | I'm not being naive at all. I find it funny that NO MATTER WHAT happens some of you think Bush is wrong.
We coulda found a nuclear weapon in Iraq and someone would have said it was Bush's fault they had one.
This entire issue is completely overblown, a co-worker saw this and said 'Hmmm didn't this come on the news like 6 months ago?" |
Funny how that the liberal fuckheads are overlooking Saddam's own words after they captured him.
He said that we stopped his nuclear program back in the first gulf war. We delayed him with inspectors, and as soon as the heat died off, he was planning on starting back up. And had we not interfered, he would have them by now, and he would have used them. He also said that if he is release, he will continue to build them, and that he would use them if given the chance. Or words to that effect.
Idiots.
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sinrakin
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 7044
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 10:39 Post subject:
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The explosives were under IAEA seal, so obviously Saddam was being prevented from using them to detonate nuclear explosives, not that he actually had any nuclear explosives. And they're conventional explosives, not even remotely falling in the WMD category, available in virtually any country in the world.
The only reason it's become an issue recently is the Iraqi government just formally reported the loss of the explosives to the IAEA this month, and the IAEA just formally notified the UN security council. The Iraqi government also reported it to the US earlier this month, but the US administration covered it up, or at least has never issued any official statement about it. So unless you think that the US installed puppet government of Iraq is secretly trying to thwart George Bush's reelection, you can forget the conspiricy theories.
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Paco
RealPoor Jedi
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 12939
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 10:43 Post subject:
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my reply has nothing to do with this thread, other than the fact that anytime anyone posts something about wmd, shitheads find some b******t spin and bring up some little anal arguement that has nothing to do with the topic
kinda like your reply
i didn't mention he was going to use *these* explosives to detonate anything...i mentioned the wmd part, as in the nuke part, and how all these shitheads bring up stuff like the IAEA seals and that they were already there..well, duh. Still in his country. Still useable.
move along sin, nothing to see here. i'm talking to frax.
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Pankrat
Can't Stop Posting
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Posted: 10/26/04 - 10:46 Post subject:
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Woops looks like you gullible fools were duped again. More non-biased reporting from the major media - the 400 tons were already gone when US troops arrived on the scene in April 2003 per NBCNews (thanks again Drudge for catching this early). CNN, ABC, CBS, NYTimes kiss my ass - October surprise backfired. Bush wins. 4 more years baby.
BTW - we have secured and destroyed 400,000 tons so far - so the "400 tons" is 1% of the total and now its a moot point anyway.
http://www.drudgereport.com/nbcw.htm
XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX MON OCT 25 2004 22:45:05 ET XXXXX
NBCNEWS: CACHE OF EXPLOSIVES VANISHED FROM SITE IN IRAQ BEFORE TROOPS ARRIVED...
The NYTIMES urgently reported on Monday in an apprent October Surprise: The Iraqi interim government and the U.N. nuclear agency have warned the United States that nearly 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives are now missing from one of Iraq's most sensitive former military installations.
[The source behind the NYT story first went to CBSNEWS' 60 MINUTES last Wednesday, but the beleaguered network wasn't able to get the piece on the air as fast as the newspaper could print. Executive producer Jeff Fager hoped to break the story during a high-impact election eve broadcast of 60 MINS on October 31.]
Jumping on the TIMES exclusive, Dem presidential candidate John Kerry blasted the Bush administration for its failure to "guard those stockpiles."
"This is one of the great blunders of Iraq, one of the great blunders of this administration," Kerry said.
In an election week rush:
**ABCNEWS Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 4 Times
**CBSNEWS Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 7 Times
**MSNBC Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 37 Times
**CNN Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 50 Times
But tonight, NBCNEWS reported: The 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives were already missing back in April 10, 2003 -- when U.S. troops arrived at the installation south of Baghdad!
An NBCNEWS crew embedded with troops moved in to secure the Al-Qaqaa weapons facility on April 10, 2003, one day after the liberation of Iraq.
According to NBCNEWS, the HMX and RDX explosives were already missing when the American troops arrived.
"The U.S. Army was at the site one day after the liberation and the weapons were already gone," a top Republican blasted from Washington late Monday.
The International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors last saw the explosives in January 2003 when they took an inventory and placed fresh seals on the bunkers.
Dem vp hopeful John Edwards blasted Bush for not securing the explosives: "It is reckless and irresponsible to fail to protect and safeguard one of the largest weapons sites in the country. And by either ignoring these mistakes or being clueless about them, George Bush has failed. He has failed as our commander in chief; he has failed as president."
A senior Bush official e-mailed DRUDGE late Monday: "Let me get this straight, are Mr. Kerry and Mr. Edwards now saying we did not go into Iraq soon enough? We should have invaded and liberated Iraq sooner?"
Top Kerry adviser Joe Lockhart fired back Monday night: "In a shameless attempt to cover up its failure to secure 380 tons of highly explosive material in Iraq, the White House is desperately flailing in an effort to escape blame. Instead of distorting John Kerry’s words, the Bush campaign is now falsely and deliberately twisting the reports of journalists. It is the latest pathetic excuse from an administration that never admits a mistake, no matter how disastrous."
Why is the U.N. nuclear agency suddenly warning now that insurgents in Iraq may have obtained nearly 400 tons of missing explosives -- in early 2003?
NBCNEWS Jim Miklaszewski quoted one official: "Recent disagreements between the administration and the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency makes this announcement appear highly political."
Developing...
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