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Frax
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8489
Location: Fuck yoiu fucking fuckers
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 Posted: 09/03/04 - 23:28 Post subject:
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| Orbit wrote: | | Mugaaz wrote: | | Kbarr wrote: | Unemployment is at about 5.5%, that sure doesn't seem like a big number to me. 5.5% losers is a pretty low number in my book.
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See they should really stop using the way they figurre out unemployment. Once ppl use it all up and still dont have a job they dont get counted anymore.. (also ppl that fired for a reason or just plain quit)
Bottom line here is jobs leaving our country more ppl looking for jobs.. All bad news for the everyday Joe. Till you get jobs coming back it will just get worst not better..
You spin it all you want these are not the best of times in this country and we are at a point where we are in such dedit its not funny. I cant not believe that this is :Clinton fault anymore we are in 4 years and it NOT getting anybetter its getting worst. We have paid so much for this war LIVES and Cash for what? Will we get any benifit of this is the long run? These are the things that bother me about GW. |
if you use up 6 months of unemployment.. you don't want a job.
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Conqueso
Luke Warm
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 388
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Posted: 09/04/04 - 00:47 Post subject:
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I have not found too many sources that spell things out directly. I have found it very surprising that voting records have not been scrutinized by the media until 60 days before the election. It seems that we have to dig up information on the internet in order to gather facts, and even then, things are not entirely correct.
Here is one of the better side-by-side comparisons I have stumbled upon: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/vote2004/issues/issue_jobs.html
People tend to forget that the President is not directly responsible for the economy. Congress has more of an impact via the committees. The President can only push policy through by presuading Congress. Although Congress has been split 50/50 between the parties for the last 4 years, I am wondering what actions they have taken to correct problems without involvement by the President? The reason why I am wondering is if part of the situation over the last few years is attributed to party wrangling. One thing that I know for certain is that there are many factors that caused the current economy.
What we have been seeing over the last few years is a "jobless recovery". Productivity has increased dramatically but hiring has not matched the same rate. It means that people are either overloaded with work, people have become more efficient, or both. Personally, I think it is both. Companies have been relunctant to hire due to instabilities in the market plus they are getting things done with the staff they have. Companies have reached a point now where things are stable and they need people to expand.
The other unusual trend that occurred is that the white collar sector was hit heavily. This includes engineers, scientists, accountants, etc. I dont recall this ever happening at the scale it did. It was mentioned earlier that there are plenty of low paying jobs out there and people are too lazy to take them. There are a few problems with this. One is that people get denied jobs due to being overqualified (yes, believe it). Outside of the service industry, your opportunities decrease a lot. You can work around it in some cases, but it is not as easy as what people think. There's also the problem of being too specialized, age discrimination, etc. The other thing to consider is that, for white collar jobs, the longer that you are out of work the less hirable you become. For example, an engineer out of work for awhile is not up on cutting-edge stuff anymore. To avoid all of this, people take temporary/contract jobs that last for short durations to earn a paycheck or get their foot in the door. When the contract ends, they go back on unemployment until another becomes available. The second is that (at least in Texas) you can also collect unemployment while working. Unemployment is scaled according to the salary of the lost job. You can take a less paying job and collect a portion of unemployment to make up some of the difference. You are working but still counted in the unemployment figures.
As for the causes of the recession:
| Quote: | By the time Mr. Clinton left office in January 2001, unemployment had dipped as low as 3.9 percent. But even as the final days of Mr. Clinton's term dwindled, economic problems appeared on the horizon.
A few months into Pres. George W. Bush's term, the exuberant growth began to shift downward and employment began slipping. The nation's slowing economy then took a tailspin with the sudden collapse of the overpriced Internet and high technology stocks, the continued decline of the manufacturing sector, and the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. |
There was also the stock market issues involving a number of companies and mutual funds. The economy is not like a light switch. It takes awhile for it to decline and to improve. From what I have read, the start of it all was due to too much uncontrolled/unchecked growth and the bottom fell out.
As for the issue of outsourcing, I am concerned about Kerry's position of manipulating taxes in order to persuade companies to keep jobs here. I can understand trying to protect technology from going overseas but preventing jobs is a different matter. If I had not thought about it some, I would of said that saying such a thing sounded nuts.
| Quote: | | Greenspan on March 11 described "a new round of protectionist steps being proposed" as "alleged cures [that] would make matters worse rather than better. They would do little to create jobs; and if foreigners were to retaliate, we would surely lose jobs." |
We saw a huge influx of manufacturing and white collar jobs become "commodities". It is an effect of the rate of technology increasing exponentially. Remember when cell phones cost $100-200+? Now they give them away. Now certain jobs (instead of products) are commodities. Kerry's plan will only bandaid the situation. We will still be persuing commodity technology instead of going down the path of innovation. People typically do not go out and take risks when things are booming. New technologies are where the $ are and are the only way to expand our markets. In addition, it was mentioned that if we do persue the protectionist route, we will have to worry about retaliation. We already see it with steel, lumber, and agriculture.
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Guest
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Posted: 09/04/04 - 02:03 Post subject:
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| Orbit wrote: | | Mugaaz wrote: | | Kbarr wrote: | Unemployment is at about 5.5%, that sure doesn't seem like a big number to me. 5.5% losers is a pretty low number in my book.
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See they should really stop using the way they figurre out unemployment. Once ppl use it all up and still dont have a job they dont get counted anymore.. (also ppl that fired for a reason or just plain quit)
Bottom line here is jobs leaving our country more ppl looking for jobs.. All bad news for the everyday Joe. Till you get jobs coming back it will just get worst not better..
You spin it all you want these are not the best of times in this country and we are at a point where we are in such dedit its not funny. I cant not believe that this is :Clinton fault anymore we are in 4 years and it NOT getting anybetter its getting worst. We have paid so much for this war LIVES and Cash for what? Will we get any benifit of this is the long run? These are the things that bother me about GW. |
Idiot.
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 09/04/04 - 07:38 Post subject: -==-
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What kbarr said.
People are afraid to get thier hands dirty.
You know who's never out of a job? A mechanic.
That's just one example.
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Guest
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Posted: 09/04/04 - 08:07 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Vengar_OO wrote: | What kbarr said.
People are afraid to get thier hands dirty.
You know who's never out of a job? A mechanic.
That's just one example. |
So f*****g true.
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Luturb
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 4042
Location: Livermore, California
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Posted: 09/04/04 - 12:12 Post subject:
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5-5.5% unemployment is what's known as "Full Employment" by economists. You can never get to 100% employment. People are always quitting their jobs or getting fired for whatever reason. Most consider 5-5.5% to be right about where you want to be. The fact that it dipped below that for a while is more unusual than the fact that it is back to that point now.
http://www.amosweb.com/cgi-bin/gls.pl?fcd=dsp&key=full+employment
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khrath
RealPoor Master of Posts
Joined: 11 Oct 2002
Posts: 8750
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Posted: 09/04/04 - 16:55 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Vengar_OO wrote: | What kbarr said.
People are afraid to get thier hands dirty.
You know who's never out of a job? A mechanic.
That's just one example. |
I live in oklahoma, theres alot of redneck bastards who would love to work on cars, problem is, it pays d**k unless you have steady work.
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Vengar_OO
Sir Postalot
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 1029
Location: Mayport, FL
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Posted: 09/04/04 - 19:08 Post subject: Re: -==-
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| Khrath wrote: | | Vengar_OO wrote: | What kbarr said.
People are afraid to get thier hands dirty.
You know who's never out of a job? A mechanic.
That's just one example. |
I live in oklahoma, theres alot of redneck bastards who would love to work on cars, problem is, it pays d**k unless you have steady work. |
Well, location does play a little bit of a role here. You want to get paid, you have to move to an area where there's not a lot of redneck bastards, but lots of soccer moms who don't know shit about cars.
Just like computer jobs in silicon valley. etc etc
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Pankrat
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 603
Location: Land of Paranoia
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Posted: 09/05/04 - 11:55 Post subject:
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Funny, now it's only 1.1 million jobs lost. The number keeps going down. Wasn't the Dem mantra just 9 months ago "2.5 million jobs lost!"?
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Orbit
Luke Warm
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 491
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Posted: 09/05/04 - 14:19 Post subject:
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| Pankrat wrote: | | Funny, now it's only 1.1 million jobs lost. The number keeps going down. Wasn't the Dem mantra just 9 months ago "2.5 million jobs lost!"? |
Funny how you cant prove that statement, or can you?
You all still dont get it do you less jobs means there even less jobs on the bottom. Till ya can get jobs coming back you have alot of ppl even fighting over the lower jobs. Funny how you all want to think it simple just "go flip burgers" I sure dont think that going to provide a living that supports your future. It will get you by day to day.. But thats right you dont care.. 
But I guess that one of my points GW wants to make life easier for Iraq but in his own country life getting harder.. Seems fair to me... 
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Posted: 09/05/04 - 14:38 Post subject:
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| Orbit wrote: | | Pankrat wrote: | | Funny, now it's only 1.1 million jobs lost. The number keeps going down. Wasn't the Dem mantra just 9 months ago "2.5 million jobs lost!"? |
Funny how you cant prove that statement, or can you?
You all still dont get it do you less jobs means there even less jobs on the bottom. Till ya can get jobs coming back you have alot of ppl even fighting over the lower jobs. Funny how you all want to think it simple just "go flip burgers" I sure dont think that going to provide a living that supports your future. It will get you by day to day.. But thats right you dont care..
But I guess that one of my points GW wants to make life easier for Iraq but in his own country life getting harder.. Seems fair to me... |
Idiot.
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goatface
Sir Postalot
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 1354
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lauren000
RealPoor Guru
Joined: 21 Oct 2002
Posts: 3510
Location: colorado springs
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Posted: 09/05/04 - 15:00 Post subject:
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Hi, I'm an engineer and I'm not going to flip f*****g burgers while I can't reduce my expenses. You lose a high paying job, but get to keep the high house payment, the expensive car payment, the kids who can't just start eating like they live in indochina. Jesus christ, you're f*****g stupid if you think domestic tranquility is being served best when some of our most educated and specialized workers have to take a job making minimum wage. And I don't think you're in a position to critize others kbarr when you had a guaranteed job for 20 years. And any of you cowboy morons in the military who think the job situation is fine should stfu and know your place. Lay brick when you're an engineer, lol morons.
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Orbit
Luke Warm
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 491
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Posted: 09/05/04 - 15:25 Post subject:
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check the dates.  Nine months != over year and half ago
And the 1.1 million didnt come from the Dems..
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Guest
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Posted: 09/05/04 - 15:40 Post subject:
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| lauren000 wrote: | | Hi, I'm an engineer and I'm not going to flip f*****g burgers while I can't reduce my expenses. You lose a high paying job, but get to keep the high house payment, the expensive car payment, the kids who can't just start eating like they live in indochina. Jesus christ, you're f*****g stupid if you think domestic tranquility is being served best when some of our most educated and specialized workers have to take a job making minimum wage. And I don't think you're in a position to critize others kbarr when you had a guaranteed job for 20 years. And any of you cowboy morons in the military who think the job situation is fine should stfu and know your place. Lay brick when you're an engineer, lol morons. |
Freak, I think you should not exist.
Free up a job for a unit that is not malfunctioning.
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Conqueso
Luke Warm
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 388
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Posted: 09/05/04 - 20:38 Post subject:
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I am an engineer and I've taken jobs for $9.50 an hour (virus call center). It's a bit better than flipping burgers pay-wise and took care of the bills until I could find a better position. I have an engineering friend that works at Walgreens and another friend that is a waiter. Nothing wrong with it. You have to make a lot of adjustments going from 60-80k to less than 20k a year but I don't see people doing these things till retirement. You do what you have to do to for your family to survive and to hell with what people think about it. Things are temporary and you can never have an education taken away from you.
I have travelled all over the world doing engineering projects. The last 10 years has had everything go global. Before, it was just bits and pieces. The mighty dollar is king and the people that provide the highest quality, best experience, the most output in the least time, and/or the cheapest price wins. The last 2 years has been a good jab in the ass to wake people up and remind everyone that no one is entitled to anything. This has happened in the US, Europe, Japan, and even Mexico (Yes, Mexico has had jobs exported out of the country due to labor costs.) So the choice is either expect a bandaid and a handout from the government (Hasn't worked in Europe) with tariffs etc or get off your ass and become a lot more competitive.
It's the new reality. Remember when jobs were going to Japan? They're too expensive there now so the new people on the block are eastern Europe, India, and China. In 10 years, these places may become "too expensive" and you will see a new place. Maybe it will be Brazil or Kenya? Who knows. That's why I find people spurting unemployment figures a bit humorous. We're in a totally new ball game that had its beginnings 10 years ago and it is now fully cranked up. If the US market was less global then I would be scrutinizing the figures more closely.
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Pankrat
Can't Stop Posting
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 603
Location: Land of Paranoia
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Posted: 09/05/04 - 21:43 Post subject:
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What's sad is that democrats are freaking out because the economy is on the upswing big time. Think about that, they are p****d off that the economy is getting better, people are going back to work etc.
It just shows what their priorities are - them in power > anything, including the well being of the citizens economically, and our safety. This is why Zel Miller is ashamed of his party and is supporting Bush.
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Guest
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Posted: 09/05/04 - 22:08 Post subject:
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Democrats support Kerry because we know that WITHOUT SHRED OF DOUBT we can do better than the fucktard Bush...HANDS DOWN
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Orbit
Luke Warm
Joined: 15 Oct 2002
Posts: 491
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Posted: 09/05/04 - 23:26 Post subject:
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| Pankrat wrote: | What's sad is that democrats are freaking out because the economy is on the upswing big time. Think about that, they are p****d off that the economy is getting better, people are going back to work etc.
It just shows what their priorities are - them in power > anything, including the well being of the citizens economically, and our safety. This is why Zel Miller is ashamed of his party and is supporting Bush. |
Because one person didnt like another.. Hahaha Try again. Its about freedom of chocie most of us respect that. I kinda feel sorry for him when he looking for support from his party though..
I still waiting to see the proof of a upswing you speak of...
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